implied odds or me just being a fish?

[koa 0]

NLH live tourney- Ok Im in the bb with QT of spades blinds are 50 /100 the cut off raises to 300 everyone folds and I call. Flop comes down 3 9 7 with two spades for two over cards and a flush draw. I check and he bets out 300 I smell weakness and like my draw and raise to 1200 leaving me with 1500. He thinks about for a little while and bam goes all in and he practically covers me. I was expecting a fold and the pot to come flying my way, now all of sudden I had my tourney at stake. Before I started to really think of what he had I thought was it even worth it to fold even if my only outs are spades baring he doesnt have the AK of spades ( I actually think he would of bet stronger on flop if he had that flush draw). I figured that with the pot at 4500 and it costing me 1500 to draw that even if he has trips I getting close to correct odds and even if I'm not the implieds are this I thought:- at least thousand more because if I win this pot I would be able steal blinds. - the other implied odd is that I believe that if I call and win here I would have a huge stack for our table and would cruise to the final table. Now if I fold I'll be back to where I started and would most likely end up have to beat the blinds as they increase and go all in with any decent hand in position, that thought bored me. To me this pot was the difference between cruises to the money or hoping I win a coin flop later. I decided to call and he flipped over trip 3's. I thought damn that not I wanted but was prepared to be dog like if I needed to. Then bam I got lucky and my spade came. There was discussion mumbled around the table as whether I was getting the right odds. Most didn't feel I did, but I feel did because I was getting the biggest implied odds I felt if I win this pot I will have great chance at winning the tourney. What do you think?I ended up making a deal when we got down to the last three.

[KramitDaToad 0]

Are you familiar with the 'true' definition of implied odds and just extending the concept into new and interesting realms, or do you genuinely consider implied odds extend beyond the hand in question?

[Metro 0]

Regardless of what you consider implied odds to be, you were handed 3 to 1, yea it was for your tournament life, but unless you put him on the same flush draw that you are on, you were getting your 3 to 1 to call him. I don't think he put you on a spade draw regardless, considering he was giving you odds to call his 300 raise for your next card. ( I don't really think the 300 raise means weakness, in fact, I would have taken it to mean the opposite, but then again, with 2 to a flush out there, I would have jammed the flop harder in his position to get any drawing hands out of there regardless of if I made anything or not. If he comes out betting harder and you missed, you fold, you call or raise, he can slow it down on the turn/river. He bets small, he's trying to keep you in the hand. To me, his bet shows strength, but stupidity as well.)

[koa 0]

Yeah toad I was just extending the meaning. Probably not the right term. I just felt it is similiar just cause I am calling a bet that will allow me to more chips that are not currently in the pot. But yeah I'm probably not using the term correctly as he has doesn't have chips left as the true definition relates to.As far as his first bet on the flop showing strength. I guess you can make a valid point that he is trying to keep me in the hand which would be strength. To me keeping your flop bet the same as your pre flop raise can is like 50 50 strenght or weakness. And with my flush draw I was chosing weakness but good read you were right he was strong

[KramitDaToad 0]

Ok, going with your extended definition I don't think its a good call.The pot odds are just over 4-1 and probably closer to 5-1 with overflushes and redraws clouding your outs.So 1 time in 5 you win the hand and it puts you in a good position to play on for the pay outs - but it doesn't guarentee anything, you have a lot of work still ahead of you.The other 4 times your out.With folding 5 out of those 5 times your still in with workable, albeit small stack, but by no means out of the running.I think a good player would have better returns with 5 shots from a smaller stack than 1 shot with a large one unless it was a winner takes all scenario.

[Smasharoo 0]

implied odds or me just being a fish? It's that second one.

[MrConceit 0]

Yeah, your play was kinda overaggressive, but I can see trying what you did. And because of your (perhaps) overaggressive play, you do have correct pot odds to go for it.You should essentially know your overcards aren't good at this point, pure flush draw say you need basically 2:1. I say that because it's obviously going to be allin. You said he just about covered you, I'll say he does completely since you didn't give more info.That puts the pot at basically 3650(ish) by my count and you have to call 1500. If you deem your flush draw to be live you want 2:1, it's possible he has a set here, so you want a bit more odds than just 2:1, which you have.You can also view it from the point of view of not risking your tourney existence on a draw here, but I'm assuming it isn't very near the money anyway, so basically you trapped yourself into calling here. I feel your best move at THIS point is to call and hope you hit the flush. Which you did.*shrug*I don't mind your move conceptually really, it was possible he had AK or something he'd lay down. But you should learn what implied odds actually means as was pointed out. On another note you might to try not to risk half your stack on a check-raise semi-bluff, but whatever floats your boat.Just realize your approach to multis (if this is typical of your play) will be very high variance.

[MrConceit 0]

Ok, going with your extended definition I don't think its a good call.The pot odds are just over 4-1 and probably closer to 5-1 with overflushes and redraws clouding your outs.So 1 time in 5 you win the hand and it puts you in a good position to play on for the pay outs - but it doesn't guarentee anything, you have a lot of work still ahead of you.The other 4 times your out.With folding 5 out of those 5 times your still in with workable, albeit small stack, but by no means out of the running.I think a good player would have better returns with 5 shots from a smaller stack than 1 shot with a large one unless it was a winner takes all scenario.

It's allin on the flop, he's 2:1 against making his flush, not 4:1, though your point about being against a set or potential overflush is valid to want a bit more than the normal odds of hitting a flush over two cards.Your point of not risking your whole stack on a draw is utterly valid, but he's already showed his proclivity for such risks I feel by check-raising half his stack on a semibluff.

[KramitDaToad 0]

It's allin on the flop, he's 2:1 against making his flush, not 4:1, though your point about being against a set or potential overflush is valid to want a bit more than the normal odds of hitting a flush over two cards. My mistake, did think it was on the turn... :oops:

[koa 0]

Thanks for the replies Its been helpful