question about a 1/3 nl hand...

[Guest]

I played this hand yesterday at the 1/3 NLHE table at Morongo and I was just wondering if anyone could offer any suggestions on how I could have played it better.Table was full, I think 10 people. I pick up As Qc UTG and raise to $10. I get 3 callers behind me, 2 of w hich have monster stacks.Flop is Jh Qh x. I bet $15 to try to push out any flush or straight draws, and all 3 players call behind me. With 3 smooth calls behind me I was pretty certain I was up against a set or 2 pair, and wasn't going to commit any more to the pot.I checked the turn, guy behind me bets $20, next guy raises to $40, and the 3rd player goes all in for just a bit more. I mucked and the other 2 called.The $40 raiser showed QJ, the all in-er showed JJ, and the $20 dude mucked. My question is: should I have checked the flop expecting someone to bet and give me the same information I was looking for when I bet, or do you think I lost the minimum with TPTK?I've been a long time lurker on this board, big fan of all the regular posters. FCP fo lyfe.-brian

[InertGrudge 0]

Just as a suggestion, post this in one of the Strat forums (the NL section, for instance). Also, don't forget to add in any reads you had on the players. Stack sizes are also important for a NL game.As to your actual play on the hand, checking on the flop and letting other people bet doesn't really give you any information. They could open the pot with a lot on the flop, including a flush/straight draw, a weaker Q, or a monster. So, betting out and then seeing 3 calls gives you a ton of information. After that, you went with your read, correctly, and got out of the hand.Edit: Notice the Mods are absolutely on top of things today and moved it already. Bravo to you.

[KowboyKoop 0]

I played this hand yesterday at the 1/3 NLHE table at Morongo and I was just wondering if anyone could offer any suggestions on how I could have played it better.Table was full, I think 10 people. I pick up As Qc UTG and raise to $10. I get 3 callers behind me, 2 of w hich have monster stacks.Flop is Jh Qh x. I bet $15 to try to push out any flush or straight draws, and all 3 players call behind me. With 3 smooth calls behind me I was pretty certain I was up against a set or 2 pair, and wasn't going to commit any more to the pot.I checked the turn, guy behind me bets $20, next guy raises to $40, and the 3rd player goes all in for just a bit more. I mucked and the other 2 called.The $40 raiser showed QJ, the all in-er showed JJ, and the $20 dude mucked. My question is: should I have checked the flop expecting someone to bet and give me the same information I was looking for when I bet, or do you think I lost the minimum with TPTK?I've been a long time lurker on this board, big fan of all the regular posters. FCP fo lyfe.-brian

Wel, for starters...I see 40 dollars or so in the pot after the flop...and then you bet less than half that (15).....you probably should have bet more or checked....probably bet around 30 I'd say. Not an expert here...but any flush draw and straight draw has an EASY call here..and you can't tell from their calls whether they have made hands or draws. Making a bigger bet here helps you find out easier.

[Guest]

Yeah I wanted to bet more but I only had about $80 in front of me at the start of the hand (I had just recently bought in) so I didn't want to commit too much of my stack with so many people behind me. I tried to make the best bet I could, but it was still pretty weak.Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

[pokerplayer101 0]

A similar situation happened to me. I was playing 1/2 at a casino. I had A Q raised to 8 or 10, had four or five callers. Flop comes Q J x. I bet twenty. I get two callers. Turn comes some meaningless card. I bet 35 one caller. River another meaningless card, I check thinking this guy has Q J. He bets out fifty with a lot of strength. I realize he's bluffing me and call. He has Q 10.I don't know about the place you play but such a weak flop bet is bound to get a lot of callers. You made the right move in that situation but eventually you'll lose checking the turn when a lot of people will just call you with weaker hands and draws. I would have bet around $40 into the turn to see where I was at, or at least bet the the pot on the flop. $80 in a 1-3 game really restricts your options.

[Scott3705 0]

Yeah I wanted to bet more but I only had about $80 in front of me at the start of the hand (I had just recently bought in) so I didn't want to commit too much of my stack with so many people behind me. I tried to make the best bet I could, but it was still pretty weak.Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I was going to give a certain piece of advice, but this changed my opinion. You go broke here and move on. When you raise AQ, this is the type of flop you're looking for. (You really should reload when you get down this far). Have to pot the flop and then after that you only have 30 and are going to get a ridiculous price.

[gates1026 0]

Table was full, I think 10 people. I pick up As Qc UTG and raise to $10.

I question the idea of raising from UTG with AQ. After reading quite a few posts on this forum from people much smarter and wiser than I (especially DrawingDead's thoughts), I have changed my thoughts on playing AQ for a raise. UTG at a full table of tough or loose players (which they seem to be), I probably just fold. This is not the kind of hand I really want to play OOP with 3 callers behind me. If I can call a bet or limp in from late position, my decidions become much easier as the hand develops. Just my 2 cents......and not really even mine, thoughts from others on the forum that I have taken and made my own :-)

[jimmybaker04 0]

The downside of playing, much less raising, with AQo from early position has been well documented on this site. You committed over 10% of your stack with that hand, out of position. Not good.Betting $15 into that pot is really not good. You could have easily been raised by KQ, and you are absolutely not going to push any flush or straight draws out. The pot is about $40, with your bet it's $55 and costs them $15 to get a piece. They are getting about 4-1 on their money, and thats before any other callers. You need to lead off here with about $35 I'd say. True, you would have lost more, but let's not get tricked into results based analysis.Obviously it's time to dump TPTK after that flop action.

[jimmybaker04 0]

A similar situation happened to me. I was playing 1/2 at a casino. I had A Q raised to 8 or 10, had four or five callers. Flop comes Q J x. I bet twenty. I get two callers. Turn comes some meaningless card. I bet 35 one caller. River another meaningless card, I check thinking this guy has Q J. He bets out fifty with a lot of strength. I realize he's bluffing me and call. He has Q 10.I don't know about the place you play but such a weak flop bet is bound to get a lot of callers. You made the right move in that situation but eventually you'll lose checking the turn when a lot of people will just call you with weaker hands and draws. I would have bet around $40 into the turn to see where I was at, or at least bet the the pot on the flop. $80 in a 1-3 game really restricts your options.

Betting the turn would be a disaster.[/b]

[ForKeeps 0]

Yeah I wanted to bet more but I only had about $80 in front of me at the start of the hand (I had just recently bought in) so I didn't want to commit too much of my stack with so many people behind me.  I tried to make the best bet I could, but it was still pretty weak.Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

Never ever bet/raise related to the amount of your chips, and don't play that level if you don't have the funds to bust. Although it was a nice laydown, it seems you could've been pushed off by a KQ or something that raised you huge, and you would've been highly dissapointed to see that happen.Especially with monster stacks at the table, consider just calling UTG with AQ and calling/folding it to a raise depending on your read of the players; for instance, if you could have read that one of the big stacks had QJ or JJ or something of the like with a raise, you could've pushed allin over the top and put the decision on them, and been a coinflip or ahead in either case.

[Merby 3]

Table was full, I think 10 people. I pick up As Qc UTG and raise to $10.

I question the idea of raising from UTG with AQ. After reading quite a few posts on this forum from people much smarter and wiser than I (especially DrawingDead's thoughts),I have changed my thoughts on playing AQ for a raise. UTG at a full table of tough or loose players (which they seem to be), I probably just fold. This is not the kind of hand I really want to play OOP with 3 callers behind me. If I can call a bet or limp in from late position, my decidions become much easier as the hand develops. Just my 2 cents......and not really even mine, thoughts from others on the forum that I have taken and made my own :-)

Just be careful about this advice, because playing AQ too weak could possibly cost you more money in the end than playing AQ too aggressive. I saw a player bust out the other day at a live 1/2 NLHE game because of his weak AQ play. It was an instructive hand which I will post in the NLHE strat section.It's not that I suggest raising pre-flop from UTG (I don't), but don't be too passive when you actually hit your hand or someone is liable to catch up for cheap. I will post the link as soon as I have finished the thread...Cheers,MerbyEDIT: Ok.. I've finished the link:Here it is

[Dratj 0]

I agree with some of the other posters here. Raising with AQo UTG is a bad play. I would have either limped in or folded that hand UTG. You must have already sensed you were in trouble when there were that many callers preflop.