at what stakes does rational behavior dominate?

[ColeSLaw 0]

Someone mentioned terrible chasing at low stakes and terrible play. Generally, the worse the play, the harder it is to predict a player's cards or action.Now I know that great players mix it up, some people are never rational, and the question is inherently tied to an individual's access and valuation of money, but at what stakes do blatantly poor decisions (that can result in winning hands) become marginal?The closest casino offers 2/5 NL and 2/4 3/6 4/8 Limit. At all these tables, I'm amazed at the poor play. At what stakes does it wash away? Is it at a different online than live?

[wrto4556 0]

It doesnt start washing away for a while. The 50/100 online and the 80/160 at the Bellagio are decent games. Every once in a while ill see big games running like 300/600 hold'em, 100/200 PL omaha, and others. There's also a 150/300 mix that runs a lot. By the looks of the people playing in them, I would assume that they would be the stages you talked about in the original post where decent players are the ones giving their money away.

[kouta43 0]

considering you can find pretty weak lhe games say 10/20, 15/30 and ihave heard even higher on party, im surprised more solid players dont just stay at these levels- considering that you dont have to be great to hae a decent edge here, and at 15/30 you can make some serious, serious money, in particular multi-tabling online. opinions?

[Guest]

Online play depends more on what site u play at, rather than the limit u play.

[iggymcfly 0]

considering you can find pretty weak lhe games say 10/20, 15/30 and ihave heard even higher on party, im surprised more solid players dont just stay at these levels- considering that you dont have to be great to hae a decent edge here, and at 15/30 you can make some serious, serious money, in particular multi-tabling online. opinions?

I think it's an ego thing. If you're a consistent winning middle-limit player for a while, you start feeling like you can beat anyone. No matter what you're making, you're sure that you can make more if you just move up another level.My mental cutoff is 30/60. If I had 200 BB, (not that I do right now), I'd feel perfectly comfortable in a 30/60 game and reasonably assured that I'd do well in the long run. Just the idea of 50/100 or higher though scares the bejeezus out of me. That's not something I'd even want to try taking a shot at until I had a good 50 or 100K in the bank.

[kouta43 0]

considering you can find pretty weak lhe games say 10/20, 15/30 and ihave heard even higher on party, im surprised more solid players dont just stay at these levels- considering that you dont have to be great to hae a decent edge here, and at 15/30 you can make some serious, serious money, in particular multi-tabling online. opinions?

I think it's an ego thing. If you're a consistent winning middle-limit player for a while, you start feeling like you can beat anyone. No matter what you're making, you're sure that you can make more if you just move up another level.My mental cutoff is 30/60. If I had 200 BB, (not that I do right now), I'd feel perfectly comfortable in a 30/60 game and reasonably assured that I'd do well in the long run. Just the idea of 50/100 or higher though scares the bejeezus out of me. That's not something I'd even want to try taking a shot at until I had a good 50 or 100K in the bank.

i know exactly what you mean. when you start playing what i call high stakes like that, i start to think of it in terms of real life spending money, and your like shit one BB is like so ****ing much, what about a $1,000 pot, and it can so easily affect your play.

[Dynon07 0]

Rational play is really hard to find actually. When I started playing this game I figured skill would increase exponentially as I increase limits, WRONG. Online you will find that below 100 NL most of the games are very very passive where people don't have enough confidence or skill yet to lead in the hands they are in.Then you move to 100 NL where it's a bunch of low limit players that consider this the step "to the big time". Now you have a low of testerone-filled males trying to prove themselves. It becomes an aggressive pit of self destruction. Same thing with 200 NL just a little more controlled.Then at 400, 600 , and 1000 NL I consider the most rational play to occur. In my experience the plays there make the most sense to me, and the players don't miss bets, make direly incorrect calls, or hero you every hand.However some nights the skill seems to leave that place too.Any limits above that online are a giant creativity fest. Those people have insane amounts of money every hand is a like a magic show. People raising ridiculous hands UTG huge, late position reraising with 56, stuff like that. Up there the game is ridiculously variance-filled and some days no matter what you do you are going to lose.Also different sites have different styles. Paradise is wild as hell, party is wild as hell, prima the players are pretty wild, FT don't have enough experience, Pokerstars is tight as hell everyone is playing out of a book, and Pokerroom is the tightest place on the face of the earth.For me at 400, 600, and 1000 is where I witness the most legitimate games.

[SexyStudThang 0]

ColeSlaw: A lot of these guys have provided an insight to the online game, but your question was about a particular setup at a live casino, so I'll try and answer as close as I can to that. First of all, there is a common misconception that these games are "bad" because it's so much harder for your good hands to stay good throughout all of the betting. There are generally 6-8 players in until at least the turn, and the showndown hands can be some of the worst you've seen. When your AA gets cracked by 63, that's definitely bad play by the other player, and though you lost the pot, this is extemely good for the game you're in. In these games the pots tend to be HUGE. While you might put in 4 Big bets over the course of the hand, the pot is going to have 30 of them if and when you win the pot. These kinds of pots are unheard of in a high limit game, where the pots tend to be highly contested, but played only 2 or 3 ways. You're going to show a much bigger fluctuation in these games than you might in a tighter game online, but you're so much more likely to come out way ahead that these games should become preferential. As for the online game, there's a few reasons play is tigher on there. First of all the players, on the whole, are much better than what you're going to find in a casino (at least in states where gambling is legal). As much as people talk about how bad online players are, you generally are going to have at least a rudimentary understanding of the game before you put your money on a poker site: whereas some people playing 10/20 at the Bellagio just learned how to play 10 minutes before they sat down. Another factor is speed. In a live casino with a good dealer you'll probably get 20-25 hands per hour in. Online, if you're only playing one table, you'll get anywhere from 60-75 hands, and add multiple tables, and you'll see how it can get boring to just sit there and play the good hands. The ability to sit there and be patient is what sets you apart from the rest of the donks, they'll play any hand that looks pretty because they're there to have fun. Anyway, the point is the low limit live games are always going to be donk infested, and that's how you want them. Dont worry about when they get "better" because that just means your bb/hr are going to go down! Beat the game you can afford, the felt isnt greener in the high limit area.

[ColeSLaw 0]

Wow, lots of insightful comments about both casino and online play. Thank you.

[FullDeck 0]

at no stakes