strategy on the turn

[KVOM 0]

Paradise Poker Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converterSB ($56.75)BB ($18.50)UTG ($50.50)UTG+1 ($47.75)UTG+2 ($16.00)MP1 ($76.00)MP2 ($57.50)MP3 ($50.50)Hero ($59.00)Button ($12.00)Preflop: Hero is CO with Ac, Tc, 7c, 2d. SB posts a blind of $0.25. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.Flop: ($4) 4s, Qh, 5s (8 players)SB bets $1.5, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $1.50, MP1 calls $1.50, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls $1.50, Button folds.Turn: ($10) 7d (4 players)SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets $4.00Hero: ???

[Sluggo 0]

Raises preflop and folds flop and turn.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Raises preflop and folds flop and turn.

I agree with the fold flop and turn - pre-flop raise is situational/table dependant IMO. 8)

[Sluggo 0]

Suited A2xx one off the button? Raise for value (do you think you're behind four limpers who are OOP?) and also for position (get the button to fold).

[Rocketwadster 0]

Suited A2xx one off the button? Raise for value (do you think you're behind four limpers who are OOP?) and also for position (get the button to fold).

Perhaps...I am just not a big fan of pre-flop raises with anything but monster hands in at least one direction. I'm still but a student of this game though, so take that for what it's worth. 8)

[KVOM 0]

On the actual hand, raising or folding would have been winning plays, calling was not. A raise would have knocked out the UTG player and possibly the bettor. I just callsed and an A on the river counterfeited my low and made UTG a higher 2 pair.I considered potting it on the turn but couldn't pull the trigger.

[Rocketwadster 0]

On the actual hand, raising or folding would have been winning plays, calling was not. A raise would have knocked out the UTG player and possibly the bettor. I just callsed and an A on the river counterfeited my low and made UTG a higher 2 pair.I considered potting it on the turn but couldn't pull the trigger.

I've been reading up on a lot of archived Cardplayer articles lately, and there are a couple of good ones that talk about the concepts of "pushing" and "pulling" (not to be confused with pushing your chips in). Not sure if you are aware of these concepts (if not, I suggest you give them a looksey), as it may have changed your thinking on what you were hoping to do with a raise vs a call. 8)

[yeffy 0]

Suited A2xx one off the button? Raise for value (do you think you're behind four limpers who are OOP?) and also for position (get the button to fold).

Raise for value? What hands are you beating that call a raise? This is a hand that needs multi-way action. The only hands you are going to run through to the river here are a nut flush or a nut low and both of thoses hands warrant a volume multi-way pot.On the turn I like just calling hoping for an overcall (pulling). There is little cause to raise here since if the original bettor calls you are chopping and possibly offering him a freeroll, only an A or 2 hurt your hand so I'm looking for callers.The river A may warrant a bet/raise if it was checked to you. This is a situation where if you can get marginal hands to fold, one caller will have a tough time scooping you. You might get a fold from a 2-pair hand and get a call from a nut low chopping the pot or get a weak low to fold taking the low half with the live 2 and a call from a set. If there isn't a 23 out there (less likely with only 2 deuces left) you have a good shot at taking the whole pot with a bet/raise.

[gergery 0]

Raising preflop and folding on the flop is a pretty bad idea. If you're going to play it aggressively, then you would raise the turn. If you're going to see cheap flops then you'd fold the flop. But don't build a big pot and then give your money away.

[Sluggo 0]

Raise for value? What hands are you beating that call a raise? This is a hand that needs multi-way action. The only hands you are going to run through to the river here are a nut flush or a nut low and both of thoses hands warrant a volume multi-way pot.

You can raise without potting it. By the time action gets to the hero, four players have limped. Do you really think that hero's equity is less than 20%? Raising can also help buy the button. Do you see how much easier the flop decision would have been without a player behind the hero? Chasing the naked low is really only possible in last position.

[Chamonyx 0]

Raising preflop and folding on the flop is a pretty bad idea. If you're going to play it aggressively, then you would raise the turn. If you're going to see cheap flops then you'd fold the flop. But don't build a big pot and then give your money away.

I agree with this statement in this case, when viewed in isolation. However it looked to me like Sluggo's point is that if you had raised pre-flop you would not have needed to fold the flop, for one of the following reasons:1. Thinned the field2. Got the button3. Checked round to youOf course, if you raised pre-flop, thinned the field and someone potted it to you, you might well want to go home as there are plenty of hands you are well behind here.Given that he limped, the flop/turn advice is spot on: On the flop, if there is no card that can come on the turn that will have you feeling like a bet, you should probably fold. In this case you got 1 of the 2 cards that could come, so you need to act on it IMO

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

Hello people, what's the title of the thread? Strategy on the turn.Since I am facing 3 other players on the turn, I have no problem being a call station here.

[yeffy 0]

Raise for value? What hands are you beating that call a raise? This is a hand that needs multi-way action. The only hands you are going to run through to the river here are a nut flush or a nut low and both of thoses hands warrant a volume multi-way pot.

You can raise without potting it. By the time action gets to the hero, four players have limped. Do you really think that hero's equity is less than 20%? Raising can also help buy the button. Do you see how much easier the flop decision would have been without a player behind the hero? Chasing the naked low is really only possible in last position.

I also still don't see the real value in a preflop raise with a marginal hand. That raise also telegraphs your A2 holding. Playing O8 online preflop raisers that aren't maniacs show the A2 so often I relish in the chance to take a flop with them and exploit the knowledge of half of their hand. It's like preflop reraisers in online PLO they have AA a huge percentage of the time I love to play hands with them too. I think the value gained is lost in exposing half your hand.I don't think his flop decision was all that difficult either. A1/2 pot bet 2 callers and a nut low draw with a gutshot it's a very easy call even with one player behind you. Say you raised preflop and bought the button now the action is checked to you on that flop.........what do you do? Take the card off hit the low and any myriad of high hands will bet the turn after you showed weakness.....or wait until it's checked to you again and.... I think your flop turn decisions would be more difficult having been the preflop aggressor, you have taken the lead but you are opening the action with zero info. Here the OP is presented with a simple call on the flop that will likely close the action, getting great odds on his money and then having a ton of information handed to him on the turn.

[Chamonyx 0]

I don't think his flop decision was all that difficult either. A1/2 pot bet 2 callers and a nut low draw with a gutshot it's a very easy call even with one player behind you.

You are joking, right? Or hadn't you noticed that this is Pot-Limit? or that there is a flush draw there that you don't have?

Say you raised preflop and bought the button now the action is checked to you on that flop.........what do you do?

It depends how many players are left in. If there are several, then absolutely take the free card. If the turn is a spade then go home. In this case - with the 7 - I would call one bet or check it round. If I am down to one or 2 other players after the flop then yes, I would bet it - but if someone re-pots I am probably out of there.I don't care about winning this pot. I do care about winning the opponents' stacks. You have got to ask yourself if this hand is going to help you do that - or does it run the risk of you losing yours.

Take the card off hit the low and any myriad of high hands will bet the turn after you showed weakness.....or wait until it's checked to you again and.... I think your flop turn decisions would be more difficult having been the preflop aggressor, you have taken the lead but you are opening the action with zero info. Here the OP is presented with a simple call on the flop that will likely close the action, getting great odds on his money and then having a ton of information handed to him on the turn.

See first comment above

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

I also still don't see the real value in a preflop raise with a marginal hand. That raise also telegraphs your A2 holding. Playing O8 online preflop raisers that aren't maniacs show the A2 so often I relish in the chance to take a flop with them and exploit the knowledge of half of their hand. It's like preflop reraisers in online PLO they have AA a huge percentage of the time I love to play hands with them too. I think the value gained is lost in exposing half your hand.

I raise with a variety of hands in position, TJKK, A+two prime cards, etc. This requires your discipline to fold on the flop a certain amount of times.A2+nut flush potential+somewhat counterfeit protection+position=automatic raise preflop if others only limp.