working on big pot play...

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

UTG is 71/25/1.75 over 80 hands.Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is SB with K:spade:, Q:heart:. UTG raises.I clicked check/fold when I saw the raise... and then unchecked it when I saw the cold calls. I figure more people in the hand is bad for my equity... and position sucks too... but I decided to make an experiment of it.Flop: (11 SB) 2:heart:, T:diamond:, 9:heart: (5 players)Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.I was quite sure UTG is good for a flop raise. I'm semibluffing here. I'm not sure how good my K or Q outs are and I want other people to fold theirs. The 3 jack outs are nice... and I want people to fold naked hearts and AK/AQ. Is betting, planning to get raised, and calling better than check/calling? Or check/folding?Turn: (9.50 BB) 5:spade: (4 players)Hero checks, UTG bets, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.River: (13.50 BB) 4:diamond: (4 players)Hero checks, UTG bets, CO calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.Final Pot: 19.50 BBAnd the moral of the story is don't cold call with KQ!Interested on flop play though. Thanks.

[antistuff 0]

His stats make him look kinda maniacal, I think that often players not thinking about odds will make calls because they don't belive him. This also might get threebet pretty often by someone in the middle with a marginal hand if they are paying attention (j10,j9,88). On the other hand, if he bets someone with a pair will almost definitly raise, making it so you cant call. I guess you'de have to think about the players in the middle here, would they raise but call and not three bet with those kind of hands?I wonder how often your "proxy raise" has to fold out the hands you want it to for it to be better than check/calling. I have no idea how to figure things like this out. nh

[pokerplayer24 0]

Dunno what kind of K/Q outs you're cleaning up here. K10, Q10 are both calling the flop and its likely AK and AQ 3-bet preflop.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

Dunno what kind of K/Q outs you're cleaning up here. K10, Q10 are both calling the flop and its likely AK and AQ 3-bet preflop.

That's a good point about KT and QT... but passive players will definitely be cold-calling AK/AQ preflop.I guess all that means I should be de-valuing my K and Q outs.The other purpose to playing the hand that way is that there are 3 jacks that are wholesome and pure (and 1 jack that is dirty). I need 10:1 on the turn to call with 4 outs, and this flop move got it for me. One other question is, would this situation be better if the maniac was button and the field was between me and him?

[antistuff 0]

What about the chances of someone in the middle regonizing he is a mainiac and reraising with a 9 or a 10?

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I guess that's something to worry about too.What I want to know is who can construct the best argument fora) bet/callingb) check/callingor c), check/foldingI think a>b>c, but I have no idea to what extent or even if I'm right.