lo8: 3rd nut flush, 2nd nut low draw

[donger 0]

HiThis is from a thread over on 2+2. Here's the original hand: Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Omaha/8 (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converterPreflop: Hero is CO with 4:club:, A:diamond:, Q:club:, T:spade:. Hero posts a blind of $0.50. 3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: (6 SB) T:club:, 2:club:, 6:club: (6 players)SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, BB folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls.Turn: (5 BB) J:heart: (4 players)SB bets..Was this hand well played? If not, how should it have been played?

[KVOM 0]

You're only in for 2 SB, so fold is not a terrible action. Without any knowledge of how the others players act it's hard to say if you should put another bet in. If the button is on a higher flush you might be faced with calling 2 or 3 more BB.

[donger 0]

You're only in for 2 SB, so fold is not a terrible action. Without any knowledge of how the others players act it's hard to say if you should put another bet in. If the button is on a higher flush you might be faced with calling 2 or 3 more BB.

Shouldn't you be using the pot size instead of the amount you've personally contributed when making poker decisions?

[KVOM 0]

That's true, but psychologically your investment in the hand is likely to play a part in your at-the-table decision. It looks as if you have 3 outs for the nut low (assume one of the others is betting with A3) and 3 outs for the nut high (non-club K). Even if one of these hits on the turn you are vulnerable to redraws. In any case I would have folded lacking any other information.It might have been better to lead on the flop rather than call.

[Rocketwadster 0]

lately, I have lost a seemingly TON of money calling with fairly good two way hands, only to lose both ways. My current thoughts on hands like this is to fold, earlier than later. 8)

[donger 0]

That's true, but psychologically your investment in the hand is likely to play a part in your at-the-table decision.

Huh? It shouldn't. That's really dumb.

It looks as if you have 3 outs for the nut low (assume one of the others is betting with A3) and 3 outs for the nut high (non-club K). Even if one of these hits on the turn you are vulnerable to redraws. In any case I would have folded lacking any other information.

You're neglecting the fact that you might already be ahead for high, and your low draw might also be good. Also, you're almost always facing redraws in a multiway omaha pot.

It might have been better to lead on the flop rather than call.

This is the one part of your post that I agree with. Check-calling the flop from the CO is very weak. The person who played this hand has very little usable information since he has taken the most passive option at every point in the hand.

[navybuttons 15]

lately, I have lost a seemingly TON of money calling with fairly good two way hands, only to lose both ways. My current thoughts on hands like this is to fold, earlier than later. 8)

yep. yep. yep.

[Rocketwadster 0]

HiThis is from a thread over on 2+2. Here's the original hand: Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Omaha/8 (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converterPreflop: Hero is CO with 4:club:, A:diamond:, Q:club:, T:spade:. Hero posts a blind of $0.50. 3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: (6 SB) T:club:, 2:club:, 6:club: (6 players)SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, BB folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls.Turn: (5 BB) J:heart: (4 players)SB bets..Was this hand well played? If not, how should it have been played?

Looking at this hand again, I can't for the life of my understand the fold on the turn there when the jack came. Why bother calling on the flop if you are going to fold to an offsuit jack (of all cards)? As I indicated in my original response to this topic, I believe in folding sooner than later with hands like this, but I am unsure of the thought process with that fold there. :?

[mrdannyg 274]

HiThis is from a thread over on 2+2. Here's the original hand: Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Omaha/8 (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converterPreflop: Hero is CO with 4:club:, A:diamond:, Q:club:, T:spade:. Hero posts a blind of $0.50. 3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: (6 SB) T:club:, 2:club:, 6:club: (6 players)SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, BB folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls.Turn: (5 BB) J:heart: (4 players)SB bets..Was this hand well played? If not, how should it have been played?

Looking at this hand again, I can't for the life of my understand the fold on the turn there when the jack came. Why bother calling on the flop if you are going to fold to an offsuit jack (of all cards)? As I indicated in my original response to this topic, I believe in folding sooner than later with hands like this, but I am unsure of the thought process with that fold there. :?

i think the only certainty is that this hand was not well played. the call on the flop and fold on the turn are inconsistent. i am not an excellent O8 player, so I could offer my opinion (and will) on the best play, but I think it is certain that you either call down or fold on the flop. Personally I bet out on the flop to test the strength of my flush - we have the third nut flush here, and very possibly could have the best hand right now. once the jack comes on the turn, it is somewhat unlikely we're getting scooped by a river that isn't obviously scary (pairing the board, etc).i bet out flop and turn, then check behind river unless i make a low.if i bet out, and SB comes out betting the turn like he did to button, I call down.if there is a raise, or the board pairs, i reevaluate.daniel

[Rocketwadster 0]

i think the only certainty is that this hand was not well played. Agreed.the call on the flop and fold on the turn are inconsistent. Agreed.Personally I bet out on the flop to test the strength of my flush - we have the third nut flush here, and very possibly could have the best hand right now. I think so also here. For one SB, lets just see what happens. That, or fold (leaning strongly towards folding).daniel

[mrdannyg 274]

i think the only certainty is that this hand was not well played. Agreed.the call on the flop and fold on the turn are inconsistent. Agreed.Personally I bet out on the flop to test the strength of my flush - we have the third nut flush here, and very possibly could have the best hand right now. I think so also here. For one SB, lets just see what happens. That, or fold (leaning strongly towards folding).daniel

S-M-R-T

[Chamonyx 0]

bet the flop: you are one off the button, with a reasonable 2 way hand, so find out where you are and (probably) get position. If Button and SB call, if SB bets out on the turn, raise to get rid of button if he only has low. If it is just you and SB on the turn and he bets out, call him down; If he checks to you then bet.As it is, you have no feel for what Button has and he is still to act on the turn, so you are facing possible raise, re-raise behind you. Fold here is fine, and you wasted 1 small bet IMO.

[columbo 0]

So many Omaha layers call the flop bet when they should be folding. I would not bet that flop. I dont see how you can hope to draw to either high or low at this point.