tournament, who's putting this down?

[MasterLJ 0]

380ish people, ~95 left.I stand in the top 12 somewhere with 11k and am dealt KK in UTG+1. Taking advice from the great Doyle, I limp, hoping for a raise. No such luck. Button limps, SB folds, BB checks.Flop is 10 K J rainbow. Scarrrryyy. At this point I don't care about the BB. I have the 3rd best hand possible. The button has 14k and is in about 3rd. The pot is 800. I bet the pot. Button raises to 2400. Again, I'm not at all concerned with the BB.Dilemma time: Given my position in the tourny, my investment thus far (only about 9% of my chips), the fact that the button is a rock and the fact that the button is trying to represent AQ on the button, but didn't raise, the fact that I don't have the nuts, and that I haven't seen the person act very much in the tournament, all leave me puzzled.. Perhaps he limped with Q9 suited, certainly not unreasonable. I'm tired, I have to work tomorrow, I have a strong hand, I push.I'll post results later (but it's pretty damn obvious I think).Who's even considering laying this down? And how often are you going to?If I wasn't so tired I may have thought of laying this down (was only a 5 dollar tourny). Given all the factors it didn't seem worth the risk. That's a damn scary board for 2 pair to play back, and it seemed that just about everyone at the table was giving me tons of respect, including the button.

[Smasharoo 0]

Hi, if you could draw to full house here, and you might be behind, why wouldn't you draw to a full house, and be able to fold to a large turn bet if the turn comes a Q or an A?

[MasterLJ 0]

Hi, if you could draw to full house here, and you might be behind, why wouldn't you draw to a full house, and be able to fold to a large turn bet if the turn comes a Q or an A?

Because it's a 25% chipstack commitment to draw one card. You either have the best hand, or you don't in that situation. If my logic was that I was behind, then there's no way I could call a 5-6k bet (3/4 of the remaining stack) to draw for the river either (as you said, fold to a big bet on the turn). So in reality, if I thought I was behind, drawing to one card and 7 outs on the turn for 25% of my chips isn't a good idea imo and isn't worth doing.

[Tsupa 0]

I would probably push here. Any player that knows what they are doing would have raised the limpers with AQ on the button. It's true he might have Q9, or he might be trying to make a move. He also might be pushing with something like KQos since he has TP and an open ended straight draw. I'm thinking he has about a 35% chance to have Q9, and with that thinking in mind, I'm willing to risk the rest of my stack. Even if he does have Q9, you have 1 shot at 7 outs, and another shot at 10 outs on the river. That gives you 15% on the turn and 22% on the river to make your full house *if* he has the Q9.

[Abbaddabba 0]

All in is the worst thing you can do. Folding is probably better, though calling is probably best.You're definitely getting called by a straight, but probably not by hands that are drawing slim or dead to you. The call is only for 2400 and you have 11000. If you call and a brick falls on the turn, you at least have the opportunity to fold if he moves in for the rest of his stack - and even if you call supposing a brick falls on the turn, that's better than pushing on the flop. At least then you'll get value from hands that YOU have dominated. If the board pairs on the turn, you have his entire stack. If an A or Q falls on the turn, you can fold to a substantial bet.

Any player that knows what they are doing would have raised the limpers with AQ on the button.

Not true.And really, what difference does it make if he "knows what he's doing"? If he flopped a straight, he flopped a straight.

[Frills 0]

Stop-n-go

[MasterLJ 0]

Abbaddabba, I get what you are saying, and it makes sense. In all honesty the main reason for my push was that I looked at my computer's clock and realized that I had to be up for work in about 7 hours (Me needs me sleep). I really wasn't that put off by the loss.At any rate, I have certain expectations for players that seem to be playing well. One of them is to not let limpers see the flop for cheap with AQos especially with position. However, you're right about flopping the straight. Doesn't matter how good he is, if he flopped it, he flopped it, however it's important to take into account pre-flop activity when deciding what to do in that situation... he limped on the button. He had position, and a raising hand, and didn't raise. I was actually more fearful of Q9 than AQ, but it doesn't really matter, both have me good and dominated.Just to argue my case, I'm not a big fan of calling there, but at the time, lacked the discipline to put it down (if you don't call the big bet, you need to either raise or fold), the reason being what I illustrated above. If you think you're behind you're drawing at below pot odds and dumping money, especially with the tons of draws out there. I think KQ was a hand that could have limped, and then bet aggressively at that flop and would have benefited from a call. If I could see the cards and see that I was up against KQ, I wouldn't want to see the turn (although, I'm sure that's a huge point of contention with most players here), I want to get all his chips on his naked open-ended straight draw if that's what he's doing (he has no draw to pairs of any kind).

[Guest XXEddie]

If youre gonna limp with a big pairdo it in LP when no more than 1 or 2 has limped as wellUTG+1, you could end up against 5-6

[JimmyWellington 1]

First of all, unless the table has been very active, limping with KK here is bad. That being said, I think the push is bad as well. You're most likely ahead here. For someone to say that it's 35% that he has Q9 is ludicrous. Sure he might have that, but 35%?I would call the raise then re-evaluate on the turn.

[Rocketwadster 0]

You played it like a donkey IMO, every time you made a decision.And BTW, limping from the button with ace queen isn't such a bad move (as displayed in this hand). Limping from early position with kings, IS. 8)

[strategy 4]

What are the blinds? You said you limped, button limped, SB folded, and BB checked. Are there antes? I can't get the pot to add up to 800.Big pairs can be limped or raised from early position if the blinds are small compared to the stacks. It makes little difference if you can get away from a pair on a bad board. If you limp with them, you are generally hoping for a raise so you can get a big re-raise in, which is why you should be limping from early position as opposed to late. In the later stages of the tournament where an average stack is something like 20BBs, the money in the pot already is worth taking with a big pair.You probably know all of this, but I just wanted to make sure you weren't paying attention to the advice eddie offered.