jj after a raise and call in 1-2 nl

[smitty 0]

playin 1-2NL @ foxwoods, 100 buy in max , 5$ half hour ( the limited buy in and 5$ really urks me so i usually dont play)i got 116 bucks in front of me i believe, in the small blinda guy thats loose, and a pretty bad player, basically a fish, raises from 3rd position to 15$folded to my friend on the button who calls the 15$in the small blind i look down at two black jacks and start contemplating my optionsi know im gonna play, but i know if just call i will mostly not like the flop (typical with jacks), and im sick of that, and have been trying to get more aggressive with my hands in nlso i decided to re-raise, i was about 75% sure i had the original raisor beat, if not dominated, ( watched him play for about an hour), and i KNEW my buddy would fold on the button to my re-raise, i knew this because he would've re-raised the fish raiser if he had a better hand than JJso im confident raising in this spot, and am thinking of raising 30-50 more, then im thinking, this guy is a donkey, and will have position on me, and will probably call my re-raise since he already put in 15, and like i said JJ after the flop, not to mention out of position against a preflop raiser, is usually skepticalI go all-in, all you can eat baby, making it 116$, i had been playing very tight, and very aggressive when i did play ( which was rarely), i wanted to take down the 30$ really, but felt i had the best hand if the donkey decides to callso he's got 140-150 left after he raised 15, asks the dealer , how much is that, 101$ ok i call, then it dawned on me he MIGHT have QQ-AA, but he WAS hesitant in calling anyways, long story short, he calls and turns over , QJ diamonds!, what!? a one hundred dollar re-raise from the tables tightest player, and he calls with Q high preflop, holy moly! he hits a FLUSH on the turn, flop was K 5 4 with two diamonds, i hit a 3rd jack on river just for funwhat a friggin donkey! i mean i realize i want his call everytime since i have him beat, but what would you do if you were me, and why? i was pretty upset about this one, this is one of the reasons i play limit usually ( donkey's drawing out for my whole stack, instead of a few bets)

[akishore 0]

in loose games, you generally want to play JJ more like TT down (set value). so, calling preflop was probably the best play, and be ready to ditch it on all but the best flops (there aren't many great flops for jacks that don't give you a set).if you do decide to play it more like QQ-AA, you want to get as much money in as you can as fast as possible, like you did. this is good against donkish opponents who will also call with a range of worse hands.good hand.aseem

[Men the Hellmuth 0]

You should search out a topic from 7cardsteve from about a week ago that dealt with this same exact topic...... what the basics of this argument is... when playing againist a "donkey" like this is you want to try to trap this "player" into almost drawing dead status.... you dont want your money going into the pot in marginal situations .... why risk so much of your money preflop where at best you may be only a "coin flip fav " .... also reference doyles book "Poker Wisdom Of A Champion"... he has a section in there about that also... Good Luck to you

[smitty 0]

yah i usually play them more passively, this definitly wasnt a typical play for me, im looking for ways to improve my nl cash game play tho, so i tried sumthing different, i do normally favor just calling looking for a safe flop or a well hidden setthanx for the reply

[Egarim 0]

I've been told about these games in the casinos.Basically haveing a 100max buyin for a 1-2nl forces a ton of action since the blinds are so high compared to the buyin. THe standard max buyin is 200 for 1-2nl. Due to this... the action is fast and furious. If he thought u had ak then qjs is basically a coinflip. I really don't blame u for moving allin. If they guy's raising 15(2bb) ep then he's a dead fish. Just buy back in and wait to break him. Of course the action is fast and if u don't get cards it can be very frustrating. So, if ur not ready to take that beat then u shouldn't be playing in the game (the $5 to the house every 30mins really kills ur hourly rate at the table and makes the game not worth playing if it's 1-2nl because u need to be making 5bb/hr to cover that which is a lot). JJ vs qjs is not that bad a beat. I'd say pair over pair is where u can start calling them bad beats... but that's just my opinion. Once u get used to the beats u'll understand.Edit; after reading all this crap about playing it passively... they don't know what they're talking about. In this type of game where the max buyin is 100 and the action is fast... U have to be rdy to get it in preflop. I'm not saying u should always do that, but when u know u got him beat push it in. There's no set value in calling a 15 bet with a $2bb.

[smitty 0]

oh ive been there done that trust me, im no newbie ;)i think they should change all these 100 max 1-2 nl games ,make it 200 max! why the hell not? it works fine online. why did they create them with a 50 bb max in the first place anyways? oh yah, so u didnt have to risk that much money, crap

[Men the Hellmuth 0]

I've been told about these games in the casinos.Basically haveing a 100max buyin for a 1-2nl forces a ton of action since the blinds are so high compared to the buyin. THe standard max buyin is 200 for 1-2nl. Due to this... the action is fast and furious. If he thought u had ak then qjs is basically a coinflip. I really don't blame u for moving allin. If they guy's raising 15(2bb) ep then he's a dead fish. Just buy back in and wait to break him. Of course the action is fast and if u don't get cards it can be very frustrating. So, if ur not ready to take that beat then u shouldn't be playing in the game (the $5 to the house every 30mins really kills ur hourly rate at the table and makes the game not worth playing if it's 1-2nl because u need to be making 5bb/hr to cover that which is a lot).  JJ vs qjs is not that bad a beat. I'd say pair over pair is where u can start calling them bad beats... but that's just my opinion. Once u get used to the beats u'll understand.Edit; after reading all this crap about playing it passively... they don't know what they're talking about. In this type of game where the max buyin is 100 and the action is fast... U have to be rdy to get it in preflop. I'm not saying u should always do that, but when u know u got him beat push it in. There's no set value in calling a 15 bet with a $2bb.

May i ask you your age???

[Egarim 0]

I've been told about these games in the casinos.Basically haveing a 100max buyin for a 1-2nl forces a ton of action since the blinds are so high compared to the buyin. THe standard max buyin is 200 for 1-2nl. Due to this... the action is fast and furious. If he thought u had ak then qjs is basically a coinflip. I really don't blame u for moving allin. If they guy's raising 15(2bb) ep then he's a dead fish. Just buy back in and wait to break him. Of course the action is fast and if u don't get cards it can be very frustrating. So, if ur not ready to take that beat then u shouldn't be playing in the game (the $5 to the house every 30mins really kills ur hourly rate at the table and makes the game not worth playing if it's 1-2nl because u need to be making 5bb/hr to cover that which is a lot). JJ vs qjs is not that bad a beat. I'd say pair over pair is where u can start calling them bad beats... but that's just my opinion. Once u get used to the beats u'll understand.Edit; after reading all this crap about playing it passively... they don't know what they're talking about. In this type of game where the max buyin is 100 and the action is fast... U have to be rdy to get it in preflop. I'm not saying u should always do that, but when u know u got him beat push it in. There's no set value in calling a 15 bet with a $2bb.

May i ask you your age???

May i ask you your sexual orientation? Do you like to cross dress sometimes? Whack off to pictures of your grandmother? What's your ssn btw?Smitty, they make it 50bb to push the action. Lots of players like it.

[Blink20 0]

this is one of the reasons i play limit usually ( donkey's drawing out for my whole stack, instead of a few bets)

I always love reading absurd statements like these.So you are detered from playing nl because you can trap a horribly donkey player for all his chips rather than just a few bets?You got all your money in a situation where you are a huge favorite, for all your money.Its a simple perspective to adopt really:THE RESULTS DON'T MATTTERKnowing this simple phrase, will help you not to tilt and to effectively analyze every play you make.BTW, very good hand and well played. You had a read on both of your oppoonents, knew your jacks were good and got action off the donkey.

[krup24 0]

Is there a question here?You put ur money in as a 63% favorite and got outdrawn. Shit happens and move on.Why do you question correct reads and plays?

[smitty 0]

^because im not perfect, and like to think about hands and game situations when im not playing, analyze with other players/friends in an attempt to LEARN and IMPROVE