a little plo

[KDawgCometh 2]

here's a hand that I played today. The game is PLO. did I overbet the river?Keith is utg with: 10 4 Q A blinds are .25/.50keith calls .50Flop: ( 8 , J , 6 )($3)sb checks, BB checks, Keith bets $1Turn: (K )($8sb bets $4, sb folds, Keith calls $31.6River: (2 ) ( $95.2)Keith bets all-in ( $33.7)final pot: $125.9no showdown.should I have reraised All-in on the turn considering all of the outs that I had, waqs the river bet too much. I was giving him basically 4-1 on his money to call me. Should I have made a value bet on the river of approx. $15

[Outlaw_IA 0]

By going all in you might induce a call anyhow, i think the play was fine.He probably just couldnt call any bet on the river.

[TheIceman05 0]

I wouldn't have moved in on the turn. Assuming he has a reasonable hand, you're still a dog here. You've got, what, 17 outs, 2 of which could be counterfeitted? You're still behind. Of course you can call the potsized bet here, but you take the worst of it in the long run if you reraise. Any reasonable player has to put you on a monster draw on the turn when you flat call, so when the club hits he has to know he's behind. I might have been inclined to make a bet he has to call (something like 15 bucks), but it's tough to fault you for moving in. You only bet a third of the pot; he made a solid laydown. Maybe an underflush calls here, but most hands are folding when the club comes off. Well played.Ice

[zimmer4141 0]

I am guessing that the guy you went against had a set. He had to figure you for a club draw the way you played it. You are a dog on the turn, so pushing in is probably the wrong play here. The call was correct, and a little luck helped you take down that pot.

[KDawgCometh 2]

bumpity bump bump

[TheIceman05 0]

bumpity bump bump

You don't need to bump shit. I already gave you your answer, B.Ice

[Absolute 0]

fold the turnyou aren't getting priced in with your draw. not even very close.

[Absolute 0]

i thought about this some.i dont mind the call here.i think pushing is your last option, it makes you a loser in the long run.PLO is a good game for hands like this.you stand to win a huge pot if you make your hand, which you are about 3:1 to make.if you just call and hit, your implied odds are good because the villian CANNOT fold the river (which he did, and that amazes me)the villian is getting 4:1 to call this river, there is absolutely no way he should be folding this after committing so many of his chips.i think the call is ok. i think folding the turn with stats on the villian is ok too.pushing would be bad.

[Guest]

fold the turnyou aren't getting priced in with your draw. not even very close.

I disagree.It's safe to assume the villain has a set so the board pairing is guaranteed death.The draw is huge, any A (3 outs), Q (3), 10 (2), 9 (3) or club that doesn't pair the board (6) should win it for you. This gives you 17 outs, of which all give you the nuts short of a straight flush beating you. There are 44 unknown cards so you have a 27:17 or roughly 1.5:1 to win.However, you're getting 8+4+10+41.6:31.6 or 63.6:31.6 or roughly 2:1 on the call. Easy call.The only hand you're in trouble against is 10QKK with 2 clubs, but even then you have an expected earning of 30% of the pot which is only barely worse than the 33% required for the call.Good call. Raising would be horrible though. Versus any reasonable pot raising hand here, you are not a favorite so putting more money in then you need to is a bad idea.I don't like the bet on the river. The only way you are getting called by a reasonable player is if they have the K flush and even then I highly doubt it. I much prefer a smaller bet which is more likely to get them to call. It's quite obvious you have a flush and if you bet smaller you might be able to get a call from another flush hoping you don't have the nuts.Zara

[Guest]

i thought about this some.i dont mind the call here.i think pushing is your last option, it makes you a loser in the long run.PLO is a good game for hands like this.you stand to win a huge pot if you make your hand, which you are about 3:1 to make.Actually only 1.5:1 to hit as I noted in my last post (which you hadn't seen yet.)if you just call and hit, your implied odds are good because the villian CANNOT fold the river (which he did, and that amazes me)I completely disagree here. If you can't get away from KK here when the opponent makes a big bet after the flush completing you're playing the wrong game. I actually feel the implied odds are very little because if he hits the flush it's painfully obvious he did. He has a much better chance of getting paid off if he hits the straight which is much harder to put him on.the villian is getting 4:1 to call this river, there is absolutely no way he should be folding this after committing so many of his chips.With a naked set with no flush, this should actually be an easy fold based on action. KDawg fairly clearly doesn't have a set because he wasn't betting enough or raising enough on the flop or turn to protect it so I would immediately put him on the flush draw with a possibility of a straight draw thrown in (though not the huge wrap straight draw he got on the turn.)i think the call is ok. i think folding the turn with stats on the villian is ok too.pushing would be bad.I agree, pushing is horrible.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Not sure what the table was playing like prior to this hand, but why even play that hand? Very loose call IMO.But, since you did play it, and your question pertains to the river only, here's my thoughts.You had much less money than what was in the pot, so an all-in bet there is fine. If you had the pot covered, I don't think you should bet all-in there, but betting $33.70 into a $95.20 pot is fine. Check/raise is way to risky there. :wink:

[cdddc75 0]

fold preflop (your position sucks)flop and turn are finehow much did UTG+1 have left on the river? I think pushing was ok there because the size of the push relative to the pot was right. Maybe a weak lead to encourage UTG+1 to come over the top would be better...but it's speculative.

[Wily 0]

Agreeing with what everyone said so far about the smooth call to the huge raise on the turn - you are almost guaranteed to be up against a set of Kings, precisely (unless your opponent is a fool and didn't raise the flop with a set then). Assuming he has no redraws, you're at 42.5% to win against a set of kings: http://www.twodimes.net/poker/?g=o&b=8c+Jh...D%0AAc+Qc+4c+Td My issue is with the small bet on the flop - you have a fairly strong holding then, with a top gutshot straight draw and nut flush draw - why not bet stronger and push off the low two pairs/other gutshots/overpairs that can make the draw much more expensive later on? Since you're probably going to take this hand to the river unless the board pairs on the turn, I think you should've bet harder here - $3 - and that would chase away the silly overpairs/BD flush draws/other gutshots that are probably there. You'll also disguise your type of holding then, and may take down the pot with a large semi-bluff on this turn or set yourself for a big profit if your opponents misread your hand.On the river - read dependent I think. If you've seen your opponent fold in big pots before, a $15 lead is probably best to represent an underset/two pair thinking HIS draw missed and betting for value. Most times though, opponents will call your push anyway, since people push with missed draws more often than the 1 in 5 he needs to make it proftiable.

[KDawgCometh 2]

Not sure what the table was playing like prior to this hand, but why even play that hand? Very loose call IMO.But, since you did play it, and your question pertains to the river only, here's my thoughts.You had much less money than what was in the pot, so an all-in bet there is fine. If you had the pot covered, I don't think you should bet all-in there, but betting $33.70 into a $95.20 pot is fine. Check/raise is way to risky there. :wink:

its not that loose of a limp. there were barely any raises PF and my hand had all cards working together in one way or another. Granted, I wasn't too happy about one of my clubs being counterfeited, but I know that I could eaisly out play my opponents PF, so I don't think it was that loose of a call

[cdddc75 0]

its not that loose of a limp. there were barely any raises PF and my hand had all cards working together in one way or another. Granted, I wasn't too happy about one of my clubs being counterfeited, but I know that I could eaisly out play my opponents PF, so I don't think it was that loose of a call

That 4 :clubs: is a total dangler. In 8OB it would be great, but it's a total dangler for this hand. Your stack was deep enough to play it, but your position totally sucks. Against a table of donks that hand is playable, but not in general.

[KDawgCometh 2]

its not that loose of a limp. there were barely any raises PF and my hand had all cards working together in one way or another. Granted, I wasn't too happy about one of my clubs being counterfeited, but I know that I could eaisly out play my opponents PF, so I don't think it was that loose of a call

That 4 :clubs: is a total dangler. In 8OB it would be great, but it's a total dangler for this hand. Your stack was deep enough to play it, but your position totally sucks. Against a table of donks that hand is playable, but not in general.

its not a full dangler as it works for the flush. If it was an off suit 4, then I do an instamuck, but I'm not completely three legging myself. It works with the hand here

[Guest]

its not that loose of a limp. there were barely any raises PF and my hand had all cards working together in one way or another. Granted, I wasn't too happy about one of my clubs being counterfeited, but I know that I could eaisly out play my opponents PF, so I don't think it was that loose of a call

That 4 :clubs: is a total dangler. In 8OB it would be great, but it's a total dangler for this hand. Your stack was deep enough to play it, but your position totally sucks. Against a table of donks that hand is playable, but not in general.

its not a full dangler as it works for the flush. If it was an off suit 4, then I do an instamuck, but I'm not completely three legging myself. It works with the hand here

What the hell are you smoking? Having the third club hurts! If it was offsuit, you would have a BETTER hand!Zara

[TheIceman05 0]

If you're against any good players, that hand is ultimately unplayable from UTG. If you're on the button, you can pretty much play any 4 cards you want.Ice