Tough Spot In 4.40

[TrueAce13 18]

No, but we need to accumulate chips as well. If we bet the flop we might get called and more than likely we're ahead. And we can also bet the turn and maybe get some more chips to increase our stack. We have a good hand, why not get value from it?

I really don't understand why people are wanting to check and play this hand passively. This is a 4.40 and people are calling with worse, more often the their calling with better. Get value. Get our chips in there. Don't slowplay in micro

[Gallo 1]

I really don't understand why people are wanting to check and play this hand passively. This is a 4.40 and people are calling with worse, more often the their calling with better. Get value. Get our chips in there. Don't slowplay in micro

Exactly. I've seen players call with Ace hi all the way down, they've called with middle or even bottom pair in these things.Get value!!

[babyelephant 0]

DN also has a section (I don't have time to look for it right now) where he talks about limping being more important when stacks are shortish, so you don't get pot committed.

if you could find this i'd be appreciative. I've heard DN say they exact opposite on All Strategy. personally i'm not too against the pf limpbut you've got to bet the flop for all the reasons that have already been said.

[SlackerInc 0]

if you could find this i'd be appreciative. I've heard DN say they exact opposite on All Strategy.

Found it--and coincidentally, he uses KJ as an example, how about that:

"However, you still have ways to play a short stack that will allow you to use your post-flop skills. You'll just have to be a little more creative and add limping to your repertoire. Let's say you are the first one into the pot and you look down at KsJs. Your stack size is $100,000 with $3,000/$6,000 blinds and a $1,000 ante. A standard smallball raise would be $15,000, which is 15 percent of your stack and more than you'd like to invest for a hand that you'd have to fold to a raise. K-J is not a hand you want to play for all your chips preflop, but it could become a strong hand after the flop. By limping in, you increase your chances of getting to the flop. That is your goal as a shortstack--get to as many flops as possible." (pp. 320-321)

This actually is one of the parts of the chapter I have the most trouble swallowing; it's certainly counter to what other poker theorists I've read will say about shortstack situations (they would say that rather than get to as many flops as possible with a shortstack, you should be conserving your chips for big moves). Interesting that you say he said the opposite on All Strategy (what's that?).He does say further down the page on p. 321 that you should "cut out limping from your portfolio" when your stack falls below "ten big bets". But apparently he's a big fan of limping when it is higher than that but not hugely higher (when deepstacked, he seems to favour a 2.5xBB raise to enter a pot).

[babyelephant 0]

Found it--and coincidentally, he uses KJ as an example, how about that:

"However, you still have ways to play a short stack that will allow you to use your post-flop skills. You'll just have to be a little more creative and add limping to your repertoire. Let's say you are the first one into the pot and you look down at KsJs. Your stack size is $100,000 with $3,000/$6,000 blinds and a $1,000 ante. A standard smallball raise would be $15,000, which is 15 percent of your stack and more than you'd like to invest for a hand that you'd have to fold to a raise. K-J is not a hand you want to play for all your chips preflop, but it could become a strong hand after the flop. By limping in, you increase your chances of getting to the flop. That is your goal as a shortstack--get to as many flops as possible." (pp. 320-321)

This actually is one of the parts of the chapter I have the most trouble swallowing; it's certainly counter to what other poker theorists I've read will say about shortstack situations (they would say that rather than get to as many flops as possible with a shortstack, you should be conserving your chips for big moves). Interesting that you say he said the opposite on All Strategy (what's that?).He does say further down the page on p. 321 that you should "cut out limping from your portfolio" when your stack falls below "ten big bets". But apparently he's a big fan of limping when it is higher than that but not hugely higher (when deepstacked, he seems to favour a 2.5xBB raise to enter a pot).

All Strategy is podcast DN does with Justin Bonomo and Scott Huff on Pokerroad.com. I'll dig through that a little. It just seems that you are way too short to be limping pf.I still think that you should be betting that flop.

[SlackerInc 0]

I still think that you should be betting that flop.

I'm not set in stone against the idea.

[MovingIn 0]

Unless you are playing a true high-level deepstack tourney, or you flop a monster with little chance at getting outdrawn, you typically shouldn't slowplay a decent made hand. Slowplaying top pair on a multiway flop in a fast tournament is a great way to get sucked out on, and when it happens, it's usually your own fault if you gave those gutshots and backdoor draws a cheap opportunity to get there. Bet the flops you hit. Maybe you fold everybody, but you assure yourself of a pot rather than improve the chances that you lose it.

[I_fold08 1]

a few things:i agree with gallo about the hand conversionsi dont dislike my limp with the KJ on the buttonmy check on the flop was awfuli only flatted on the turn because i specifically put the caller ahead of me on a flush drawand i think where i messed up the most this hand was that i was just running bad, and really down about my game, so i played the hand not to lose it instead of trying to win the hand. i had it drilled in my brain that i would lose every pot that i played.thanks to everyone who's posted here