ffishh 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comCO ($124.25)Button ($384)SB ($88)BB ($390)UTG ($272.20)UTG+1 ($276.20)MP1 ($215.10)Hero (MP2) ($400)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q , A :club:UTG calls $4, UTG+1 calls $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $16, 4 folds, UTG raises to $58, 1 fold, Hero calls $42 (Hero?)Flop: ($126) 10 , J , 8 (2 players)UTG bets $72, Hero ?Villian is 41VP$IP / 12PFRUnsure about flop PF call. Flop call is standard I think... Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Fold preflop to his 3-bet Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 You made a good bet but on his raise...you have to lay that down. Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 As played, I'd flat the flop. You have a good draw, the opportunity to represent other hands, and position. Link to post Share on other sites
cubsfan44 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Raise more preflop (to like $18-$20) Fold or raise to his 3 bet with folding being like a billion times better. As played you have to shove that flop, flatting the flop there is horrendousedit: just notice that it was an utg limp reraise. This is a fold preflop always. Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 As played you have to shove that flop, flatting the flop there is horrendous Why's that? Link to post Share on other sites
cubsfan44 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Why's that?The pot's way to big. Link to post Share on other sites
BellaireDrew 2 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 you have to fold to the l/r like always here preflop.but now here on the flop i don't really know what to do. Villain only has a little over 140 left after his c bet so we have no FE and we only have a double belly buster, I don't think the Q or A are live here but maybe the A if he has KK but that only gives us one extra out than if he has AA. But I guess if you are going to call pre you need to shove, but i don't like it either way. Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 The pot's way to big.Too big for what? The villain to fold on the turn? Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 This hand is strikingly familiar... Link to post Share on other sites
ffishh 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 So the consensus is I need to fold to PF 3 bet?I think I agree. People just don't 3bet light enough for AQ to be ahead of much. Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 So the consensus is I need to fold to PF 3 bet?yes.I think I agree. People just don't 3bet light enough for AQ to be ahead of much.Yeah, and it's dominated a lot. It's too big a percentage of the stacks to play for implied odds. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Can you get villains stats on 3bet%, cbet%, AF? Link to post Share on other sites
cubsfan44 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Too big for what? The villain to fold on the turn?Too big to do anything but fold or shove Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Too big to do anything but fold or shoveThere must be some part of your thinking that you consider obvious that I don't see.I don't think you're really saying, "Calling is not an option because the pot is large." That doesn't make any sense.Do you think the villain can fold to a flop shove, but not on the turn?Do you think the villain always (or nearly always) bets all-in on the turn?Or you prefer to be all-in so that you don't have to give up equity by folding a brick turn?Here are the numbers for calling with the assumption that the villain always pushes. We have somewhere around 8 outs against QQ+. (If he has QQ or KK then our aces are live. But if he has KK then he has two blockers. And he could have a 3-flush. Meh. About 8.)Preflop 126flop (villain) 72Turn (villain) 142Total win (flop+turn) 340Amount hero has to call 72Odds assuming push 4.722222222B.E. win% 0.174757282 unknown cards: 47Outs: 8Odds of improving: 4.875Win % 0.170212766By playing totally ABC, calling is less than a $2 loss. It's essentially break-even. Then we can add it in some deception, because what we're drawing to isn't obvious to the villain. Suppose you're the villain with A A and the 4 falls on the turn. Is pushing or calling all-in automatic here? I don't think so.Or A K . The villain very well might get in on the flop ("I have two overs, a gut-shot, and 3-flush and two cards to come. Call") but fold a lot of turns.You might argue that the pot is too big for the villain to fold anything is in his range. That could be, but I don't understand the desire to push the flop in that case. Link to post Share on other sites
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