Why With Low Pocket Pairs?

[TheRegime 0]

TheRegime, you say we aren't factoring in the bluffing potential of our opponents, but are you factoring in your bluffing potential? Say you raise with 44 on the cutoff, the button folds, and the flop comes A-J-7. If it's checked around to you, you can almost always take this down with a continuation bet. People will be folding suited connectors that missed, pocket pairs higher than 5s, kings, sevens, and even weak aces depending on your opponents. If you hadn't raised with your 44 preflop, you wouldn't have had control of the hand, and this option would not be available to you. The way you are playing pocket pairs is weak, and no one at your table will fear you.As for the original post, if people have lots of blinds I wouldn't call an all-in with pocket pairs either. Some people just like to gamble.

You are right it is good to take control of the pot. I will raise some low PP if I have a good position and noone before me has raised. But that is about the only time. i wont raise them in early position and may even just fold in early position. In late position or on the button I would probably raise but not a lot. Never raise them from the SB or BB. I would never limp on the button with any hand I either raise or fold. But I wont call big reraises preflop or raise enough to commit myself with a low PP. I guess some of the other people who are telling me to raise with PP might be thinking i always limp call, but I do raise when I have good position. Maybe this will clear some things up. I usually only limp with them in Mid positions or if they are medium pairs in early positon.So to clear everything up. Early positon 77-1010 just call, JJ+ raise, 66-22 fold. Middle position 22-99 limp 1010+ raise. Late position 22-JJ raise if noone has raised, call if someone has raised. Raise/reraise with QQ-AA obvs. Button raise any PP if noone has raised, call with 22-99 if someone has raised. 1010+ reraise if someone has raised. SB and BB limp or call and only raise with JJ+.I hope this clears it up. I think a lot of you thought I limp with low PP in every position.I like how this site rarely discusses different ways of thinking it is one way or wrong. But whatever Im just trying to learn and grow through discussion.

[FARGOpokerND 22]

THIS

So to clear everything up. Early positon 77-1010 just call, JJ+ raise, 66-22 fold. Middle position 22-99 limp 1010+ raise. Late position 22-JJ raise if noone has raised, call if someone has raised. Raise/reraise with QQ-AA obvs. Button raise any PP if noone has raised, call with 22-99 if someone has raised. 1010+ reraise if someone has raised. SB and BB limp or call and only raise with JJ+.I hope this clears it up. I think a lot of you thought I limp with low PP in every position.

DOES NOT AGREE WITH THIS

Anyways back on topic. Personally I dont even raise PP's 99 and lower unless it is like 3 handed and Im on the button. I will limp/call for set value but that is about it. I find you commit too much trying to buy your way out of missed flops or scary boards with lower PP. Even mid PP like 99-JJ can cost you a lot if the board is low or has 1 over card and you run into a big hand and are forced to fold after commiting a lot or call and lose.

[tuckermitchell 1]

THIS DOES NOT AGREE WITH THIS

LOL, this is totally off the subject but I ate at Panda Express in Shit Lake City today strictly because of your avatar. Carry on.

[Snamuh 0]

Hahah whatever Amscray different play styles my friend.Also to Tehtoe online I have mixed results cuz I tilt a lot online. But my cash games are way better online. My home game SNGs I play all the time for like $10 or $20 I am up $400 over 130 games. I keep a big excel sheet.

Yeah. Good winning ones and bad losing ones.

[Snamuh 0]

I like how this site rarely discusses different ways of thinking it is one way or wrong. But whatever Im just trying to learn and grow through discussion.

Go to ****ing 2p2 and see what they tell you there. Many of the hands posted here are standard and have a definite answer. There's plenty of hands I'm willing to debate. But I'm not going to sit and debate something that I know is incorrect. It's a fair statement to say that my poker game is much further developed than yours is. There may have been a point in time where I considered the same thing and chose to limp small pocket pairs. But as you improve, you realize the mistakes you were making and WHY raising is optimal.If you want a legitimate alternative reason to raising your pocket pairs beyond the immediate EV of a specific hand, consider this. The more hands you raise, the more disguised your big hands are. In addition to the higher EV raising creates compared to limping, the additional EV you get for raising a wider range is definitely reason enough to raise your small pocket pairs.

[TheRegime 0]

Ok Ok I wont argue anymore. I have been playing for a long time but I am willing to learn. And I know some people on here are very established online and know how to play. Maybe I was just blinded by the fact of getting outdrawn and bad beat all the time that it drew me away from playing low PPs. So I will take your advice, if the way I am playing them is wrong then teach me the right way.Can you lay out what I should raise in what position for pocket pairs? When I should fold them or when if ever to limp?

[Vtlaxer09 4]

Ok Ok I wont argue anymore. I have been playing for a long time but I am willing to learn. And I know some people on here are very established online and know how to play. Maybe I was just blinded by the fact of getting outdrawn and bad beat all the time that it drew me away from playing low PPs. So I will take your advice, if the way I am playing them is wrong then teach me the right way.Can you lay out what I should raise in what position for pocket pairs? When I should fold them or when if ever to limp?

i fold pp's a ton fwiw.

[TheRegime 0]

Snamuh wanna help? Read my post above.

[TheRegime 0]

Bump cuz now I actually want help.

[AmScray 355]

Bump cuz now I actually want help.

You can't unshit the bed.

[TheRegime 0]

You can't unshit the bed.

Hahah whatever Amscray go screw yourself. I am trying to learn. i want to have both sides of the argument layed out so I can see that the way you guys say is better is actually better. From what Ive seen it apparently is the right/most used/profitable way.So instead of being a dick all the time how bout you help a fellow poker player out. Ive already apologized for snapping and admitted I may be wrong and wanted to learn but you still act like a dick. You must have a very sad life.So anyone who wants to forgive someone for a small mistake and actually teach me the correct way to play low/mid PP preflop I would thank them. What to raise from what positions, when to fold, call, reraise. What to do if there are raises before you in what positions etc.

[AmScray 355]

Hahah whatever Amscray go screw yourself. I am trying to learn. i want to have both sides of the argument layed out so I can see that the way you guys say is better is actually better. From what Ive seen it apparently is the right/most used/profitable way.So instead of being a dick all the time how bout you help a fellow poker player out. Ive already apologized for snapping and admitted I may be wrong and wanted to learn but you still act like a dick. You must have a very sad life.So anyone who wants to forgive someone for a small mistake and actually teach me the correct way to play low/mid PP preflop I would thank them. What to raise from what positions, when to fold, call, reraise. What to do if there are raises before you in what positions etc.

LOL'You' telling other people about 'sad lives'.

[TheRegime 0]

lol that pic is awesome. So old though. Want me to give you an updated one?

[AmScray 355]

It took me forever to find the right "hand holding a small pocket pair" picture, so for now, that one will have to stand (for 24 hours, as my sigline)

[TheRegime 0]

It took me forever to find the right "hand holding a small pocket pair" picture, so for now, that one will have to stand (for 24 hours, as my sigline)

lol. Anyways about those pockets threes Im holding. Any idea on how to play them?

[AmScray 355]

For very low PP's (2,3,4,5) in early position, I'd say I limp about 70% of the time and raise my standard entry raise the other 30% of the time. In middle position, a lot of it depends on what I have going on after me. If there are laggy players, shortstacks or huge donks who never fold, I'd say 70/30 ratio stays the same, since I'd rather not develop a larger pot 'as a rule' in those situations. If the players left to act are weaker/tighter- I'll raise with small PP 70% of the time, call the other 30% in middle position. In late position or on the button with no action behind me, I'll raise them 100% of the time to attack the blinds. In late position facing one lone raise in front of me, I'll usually just call (occasionally, if I've identified the raising player as being particularly weak, I might reraise with a small PP here to drive out the blinds and get it HU against him so I can barrel any dry flop (and turn if necessary/appropriate) to take away the pot, but this is situational and depends a lot on that player, as well as how much 'credibility capital' I have to spend). In late position with heavy action in front, I fold them. Having them in the blinds is usually a good time to just call, especially in the face of light action or steals from players in late position.

[SGFULTON83 0]

For very low PP's (2,3,4,5) in early position, I'd say I limp about 70% of the time and raise my standard entry raise the other 30% of the time. In middle position, a lot of it depends on what I have going on after me. If there are laggy players, shortstacks or huge donks who never fold, I'd say 70/30 ratio stays the same, since I'd rather not develop a larger pot 'as a rule' in those situations. If the players left to act are weaker/tighter- I'll raise with small PP 70% of the time, call the other 30% in middle position. In late position or on the button with no action behind me, I'll raise them 100% of the time to attack the blinds. In late position facing one lone raise in front of me, I'll usually just call (occasionally, if I've identified the raising player as being particularly weak, I might reraise with a small PP here to drive out the blinds and get it HU against him so I can barrel any dry flop (and turn if necessary/appropriate) to take away the pot, but this is situational and depends a lot on that player, as well as how much 'credibility capital' I have to spend). In late position with heavy action in front, I fold them. Having them in the blinds is usually a good time to just call, especially in the face of light action or steals from players in late position.

Nice strategy Amscray pretty much standard in my game as well, but what do I know I'm not a big time player.

[FARGOpokerND 22]

You need to determine if you are going to play your pairs as either 1. a hand you wish to set-mine with only or 2. a hand you are playing to win with.If you want to set-mine, its usually against multiple players, or against a player who raises premiums and your 22-66 is LIKELY NOT good. You need to be sure you can stack him and you need to be getting the right odds in comparison to what you can likely win (There is MUCH debate to this....15:1-16:1 is the number I look to be getting)If you want to play to win outright without a set, you need to be sure you can get it down to 1 MAYBE 2 other players...and you need to show aggression, but be able to give up if facing resistance.This is a small start to this...it could be a long discussion and I am too lazy to type it all out.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

how in the hell is this thread not dead yet... people are gonna start thinking there's drama in here.

[AAsnake88 0]

You can't unshit the bed.

Awesome.