normanvdmeijden 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Hey Guys,I'm new to the forum so be gentle How would guys have played it?Regards,NormPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)Button (t4360)SB (t3493)BB (t3400)UTG (t8325)UTG+1 (t850)MP1 (t3165)MP2 (t1280)Hero (t1310)Preflop: Hero is CO with , . 3 folds, MP2 calls t100, Hero calls t100, 2 folds, BB checks.Flop: (t350) , , (3 players)BB bets t500, MP2 calls t500, Hero raises to t1000, BB raises to t3300, MP2 calls t680 (All-In), Hero calls t210 (All-In).Turn: (t6040) (3 players, 2 all-in)River: (t6040) (3 players, 2 all-in) Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Standard..Edit:Wait.. **** that.. raise PF with kings.. didn't see that part Link to post Share on other sites
Wingman008 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Standard..Except never limp with kings. Raise that preflop. Link to post Share on other sites
E-Cart6 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Raise Preflop and on the flop just go allin. No need to minraise. You're never gonna fold to anything anyways and they know it aswell. Link to post Share on other sites
SavageHenry 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Limping with KK in general is a poor play. You invite ace rags, small pairs, suited connectors and all sorts of interesting hands into the pot behind you and you never know if you have the best hand unless you make a set of kings on the flop. Unless you are very comfortable mucking KK on what looks like a "safe" flop stick to the standard raise.there are a few times you can limp with KK. If you are in EP with a moderate to short stack with lots of aggressive players behind you who like to raise you can limp and hope for a re-raise so you can move in. The other time i do it is HU. Its a powerful hand against one opponent i will limp on occasion heads up and try and trap with it. Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Limping with KK in general is a poor play. You invite ace rags, small pairs, suited connectors and all sorts of interesting hands into the pot behind you and you never know if you have the best hand unless you make a set of kings on the flop. Unless you are very comfortable mucking KK on what looks like a "safe" flop stick to the standard raise.there are a few times you can limp with KK. If you are in EP with a moderate to short stack with lots of aggressive players behind you who like to raise you can limp and hope for a re-raise so you can move in. The other time i do it is HU. Its a powerful hand against one opponent i will limp on occasion heads up and try and trap with it.No.. there isn't.. you raise with them.. always.. If you limp with kings in EP with agressive players, and comeback over the top of them, you clearly telegraph your hand.. Link to post Share on other sites
sactownjoey 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Were you looking for a lot of action? Would you normally raise KK pf?You could have had 5 players seeing the flop on this hand which would have made playing KK a lot harder since BB's (and SB's, for that matter) range is the entire deck (minus big pairs or big A, probably)Raising might have made you heads up and likely way ahead which is what you want w/KK pf. Link to post Share on other sites
normanvdmeijden 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Were you looking for a lot of action? Would you normally raise KK pf?You could have had 5 players seeing the flop on this hand which would have made playing KK a lot harder since BB's (and SB's, for that matter) range is the entire deck (minus big pairs or big A, probably)Raising might have made you heads up and likely way ahead which is what you want w/KK pf.Well the idea I had was by limping to get max value out of them and I put the other players on a top or medium pair...Thanks for the replies btw. Link to post Share on other sites
sactownjoey 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 No.. there isn't.. you raise with them.. always.. If you limp with kings in EP with agressive players, and comeback over the top of them, you clearly telegraph your hand..I don't mind the trap with KK HU if we are first to act. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 No.. there isn't.. you raise with them.. always.. If you limp with kings in EP with agressive players, and comeback over the top of them, you clearly telegraph your hand..That's a word I would try not to use a lot while discussing poker strategy. If you never limp w/ AA or KK or big hands in general, and always raise with them... I think you know what I'm getting at.Always keep your opponents on their toes... keep em guessing. However, I'll usually only limp with big hands when the blinds/ante's are more, putting more in the pot, inviting someone to try and steal the pot pre-flop.As for this hand... w/ only 13 bb's, I would raise this preflop. You'll get action regardless, but you want to thin the field a bit. Raise to 400 or so, and get it all in on a non A flop.kthxbye Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I don't mind the trap with KK HU if we are first to act.There's a big difference between HU and an 8 player table such as the OP is at..HU.. yes.. I can see it.. but we aren't HU, we have position, and people have already limped.. you raise here.. always.. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Limping with kings in a HU match is really pointless.I used to think that it was smart and i was being tricky by doing it, but it didn't work.When you're playing heads up, you're raising a lot of hands when it's your button. There's no need to slowplay kings PF as your open-raising range is so large you're hand is already disguised by raising. When you open limp all you're doing is keeping the pot small and making it really easy for your opponent to play against you. Link to post Share on other sites
sactownjoey 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Well the idea I had was by limping to get max value out of them and I put the other players on a top or medium pair...Thanks for the replies btw.Do you do that a lot? In my opinion, the goal is correct but the execution needs more thought. The more players you let see a flop with a wide range of hands, the more likely someone is going to make a hand that is better than yours or, at least, make you make difficult decisions.In my opinion, you also don't have enough information to narrow the ranges of your opponents to top or middle pair. Straights, two pairs and sets (all hands that have you beat) have to be considered. Link to post Share on other sites
normanvdmeijden 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Do you do that a lot? In my opinion, the goal is correct but the execution needs more thought. The more players you let see a flop with a wide range of hands, the more likely someone is going to make a hand that is better than yours or, at least, make you make difficult decisions.In my opinion, you also don't have enough information to narrow the ranges of your opponents to top or middle pair. Straights, two pairs and sets (all hands that have you beat) have to be considered.Well don't do it a lot, just this once as I was getting short stacked and thought this was a nice hand to double up.How much would you guys normally preflop raise to with KK? 4/5 times the BB? Link to post Share on other sites
sactownjoey 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Well don't do it a lot, just this once as I was getting short stacked and thought this was a nice hand to double up.How much would you guys normally preflop raise to with KK? 4/5 times the BB?I would raise it to 400-450 and call/shove any reraise. You may not get any action since the original limper was short stacked too but I would rather take a 250 pot than have an overpair against up to 4 other players. Link to post Share on other sites
sactownjoey 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Check out this thread for a great discussion of why KK in a multiway pot after the flop sucks.http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=114792 Link to post Share on other sites
normanvdmeijden 0 Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Check out this thread for a great discussion of why KK in a multiway pot after the flop sucks.http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=114792 Okay, thanks a bunch guys!Norm Link to post Share on other sites
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