Pot Committed On The River?

[Cappy37 0]

PokerStars (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Seat 1: Big Blind (3709 in chips) Seat 3: UTG (8758 in chips) Seat 4: UTG+1 (16440 in chips) Seat 5: MP (20716 in chips) Seat 6: CO +1 (13841 in chips) Seat 7: CO (9730 in chips) Seat 8: Button (19625 in chips) Seat 9: Hero (4818 in chips) Preflop: Hero is SB with K , A , 2 , 3 . Hero posts a blind of 300. 4 folds, CO raises 600 to 1200, 1 fold, Hero (poster) raises 600 to 1800, BB raises 600 to 2400, CO calls, Hero calls. Pot =7,200Flop: J , T , 2 (3 players)Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets 600, Hero calls 600, BB calls 600. Pot = 9,000Turn: T (3 players)Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets 1200, Hero calls 1200, BB folds. Pot = 11,400River: 4 CO Bets 1200, Hero ???(2 players)Final Pot:I know I should dump on the flop, most likely. Suprised the heck out of me to see the BB re-raise me. Put CO on a steal, had nut diamonds and A23 for a low w/ backup, had an M of less than 5, figured this would be the hand. Flop was a night mare, turn gave me 13 probably outs to the winning hand, and the river an obvious brick. I ended up in some massive debate with the railbirds over my river fold. I had 618 chips left on the river (barely more than a big blind), pot was laying me 19 to 1. In order to make this fold I have to be more than 95% sure I am beat here. I felt more than 95% sure I was beat here and that 618 chips would be better served tossed in the middle in one of the next 5 hands (I was going to be the button next hand, and no antes, so 5 chances for a good hand to double-quadruple up with).I want some thoughts on this. I know I should dump on the flop, I played the hand horribly in every sense of the word, but on that river, I can justify folding, can't I? AK high simply cannot be good here even 5% of the time, with the original raiser betting every street. He bet into 2 opponents on both the flop and turn.

[Frez 0]

I call flop, dump on turn. Runner - runner low is 4-1, plus a Q is a nice card for you. Once you miss the turn the, much it up.

[checkymcfold 0]

4bets pre=AA almost all of the time. i instapeel the flop and turn with a pair and fd respectively, not worried about a boat at all, and muck the river when i brick.fyi, i raise the turn if i catch bottom two pair in this spot.edit: i guess this all changes depending on what sort of player the villain is. i tend to cap most hands in HU spots preflop just to try to gain some fold equity on flops like these, and against players like me with relatively wide 4betting ranges, i suppose you can toss the flop. but it really depends on what sort of player the villain is--for 90% of players, 4bet=AA, though. if his other two cards caught two pair or a boat, good for him.

[Cappy37 0]

4bets pre=AA almost all of the time. i instapeel the flop and turn with a pair and fd respectively, not worried about a boat at all, and muck the river when i brick.fyi, i raise the turn if i catch bottom two pair in this spot.edit: i guess this all changes depending on what sort of player the villain is. i tend to cap most hands in HU spots preflop just to try to gain some fold equity on flops like these, and against players like me with relatively wide 4betting ranges, i suppose you can toss the flop. but it really depends on what sort of player the villain is--for 90% of players, 4bet=AA, though. if his other two cards caught two pair or a boat, good for him.

I played the hand horribly. My sole question was folding the river being 95% sure I was beat. I kinda went meta-game on the turn: Any Q or diamond made me the non-boat nuts, and by saving my last bet by not raising, there was little to no chance a stack that large would fold to my last bet on the river if I hit, and saved me that bet for the "next hand".But yes, I should have been well gone on that flop. 2 and 3 betting doesn't thin the field, even this late in the donkfest. on the flop I had a gutshot draw on a paired board and had a backdoor nut-low draw that lost all it's counterfeit protection. Just a mess of a flop, really.As for 4-betting ranges, villain had played a lot of pots and, like many in this tourney, seemed to favor high-only hands. My only real ? in the hand is: I can toss that river even getting 19-1, can't I?

[checkymcfold 0]

As for 4-betting ranges, villain had played a lot of pots and, like many in this tourney, seemed to favor high-only hands. My only real ? in the hand is: I can toss that river even getting 19-1, can't I?

yup.

[Chamonyx 0]

I played the hand horribly. My sole question was folding the river being 95% sure I was beat. I kinda went meta-game on the turn: Any Q or diamond made me the non-boat nuts, and by saving my last bet by not raising, there was little to no chance a stack that large would fold to my last bet on the river if I hit, and saved me that bet for the "next hand".But yes, I should have been well gone on that flop. 2 and 3 betting doesn't thin the field, even this late in the donkfest. on the flop I had a gutshot draw on a paired board and had a backdoor nut-low draw that lost all it's counterfeit protection. Just a mess of a flop, really.As for 4-betting ranges, villain had played a lot of pots and, like many in this tourney, seemed to favor high-only hands. My only real ? in the hand is: I can toss that river even getting 19-1, can't I?

You played the hand perfectly imo; In this sort of tourney situation you need to be playing to win - go big or go home, so if you hit your str8 or your flush you will be in a great position, if you don't it won't make much difference.The only thing worth considering doing differently is raising the flop to try to get a free card on the turn.On the end, you know your pair of 2's is not going to take it down, so you need to save your last chips and hope to double up a few times.

[Cappy37 0]

The only thing worth considering doing differently is raising the flop to try to get a free card on the turn.On the end, you know your pair of 2's is not going to take it down, so you need to save your last chips and hope to double up a few times.

Wow, my draws were soooo slim I never even considered a play like that. Nice curveball to consider to mix up my play (not to be a go-to pitch, of course). Thanks for the input.

[troyomac 0]

You played the hand perfectly imo; In this sort of tourney situation you need to be playing to win - go big or go home, so if you hit your str8 or your flush you will be in a great position, if you don't it won't make much difference.The only thing worth considering doing differently is raising the flop to try to get a free card on the turn.On the end, you know your pair of 2's is not going to take it down, so you need to save your last chips and hope to double up a few times.

I don't think this is an option because of hero's short stack. Villian will 3 bet here too often in my opinion.

[Chamonyx 0]

I don't think this is an option because of hero's short stack. Villian will 3 bet here too often in my opinion.

Actually the problem is that you are OOP, which I missed.