dingas
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Posts posted by dingas
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At this level you see quite a few nut-peddlers and the min-raise on the turn really screams that he has you beat here. I think I give it up to the big river bet.
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Yes given that this is $5 PLO, I'd say the odds of this being a retard with one of those hands goes way up. At higher stakes we can eliminate most of those hands because players tend to understand the hand values better.. but they might be more inclined to try a hopeless bluff on the river. The more I think about it the fold doesn't seem all that bad really.You're going to see something retarded like AT2x, A32x, A76x with 2 spades here a lot. This is almost never a bluff. -
The one hand that sort of makes sense for villain is KQJ that picked up a spade draw on the turn. It could be the 245 straight draw that hit on the turn but decided to slow play for some reason. There is also the donk factor of having deuce and thinking he has a straight when he doesn't.. When someone's line makes no sense, my default play is to call. If he chose to take a sophisticated line with the wheel, then I don't mind paying him off.
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Making top set is very profitable when you hit it, and you are freerolling on the chance of making random full-house or quads with your side cards. If it's fairly deep stacked and I can get in cheap, I would not fold any KKxx. If it's short-stacked with most of the play preflop (for example, in a PLO tournament) you can dump it I think.in general, should i be throwing away KKxx where xx are not suited or connected like KK37 no suits?i figured the hand basically sucks unless we hit a K, so ive been ditching it (except like LP with a few limpers sometimes)then i came across something last night that said to basically never fold AAxx or KKxx -
My response was based on the opponent being nitty. I think reraising with a bet and raise in front of him, a nitty player is showing up with a full house most of the time, at a minimum AT**. Not even that nitty really - just good play.
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Why reraise? If you are trying to bluff villain off 77, I don't think this will work. If villain can have AT too it might be better, but he probably doesn't put in the second raise with that hand (anyway there are only two combos, so T7 and 77 are statistically more likely). Your pot odds are 1.1 : 2.6. The odds of improving your hand on the turn are 9 : 34 or about 20%. When you hit you usually double up, making the implied odds 1.1 : 6.4. I think the best play is to call and try to improve (check fold if you miss).
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How do you like this horror story? I'm the Chip Leader in a $40 buy in tournament with 55 left (top 50 paid). Hand 1 - I'm 2nd UTG with Ad Ah. UTG moves all in. I call. UTG shows As Ac. Board is 9s 4s 3h 5s 8sI lose 25% of my stack.Hand 2 (very next hand) - i'm UTG with Qd Qh. I raise to 1000. Button calls. Flop 2d Qs Qc. I check, button moves all in I call, he shows aces. Turn ace, river ace.I lose 50% of my stack.Hand 3 (very next hand after that) - i'm BB with 2s3s. Three limpers to me and I check. Flop is As4s5s. I move all in, one person calls and shows 8d8s. Turn 6s. River 7s. I'm out.
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Agree with other replies. Easy fold on river and no real point in betting turn.
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What was the idea behind check-calling the flop? What were you planning to do on various turn cards?
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Not really much to comment on. The check-raise bluff will work x% of the time, but it is difficult to quantify what x is... The only way to find out if this is a good play is to start making check-raises in these spots and see what happens. Either way, trying different lines sharpens your game and helps keep poker interesting, so I say go for it.is anyone else going to comment this is a pretty interesting line as far as im concerned???>>>>>> -
Why not bet the turn to represent the nut straight?
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The times villain has bottom set or a weaker draw makes us a favorite against his range, even taking into account that we are sometimes a dog to a monster draw. A call on the flop would be okay if we did not have a Q in our hand (because of the greater likelihood of being against top set). As it is, a reraise is best.This type of flop hits more wrap/flush draws than top set. There are enough combo's of those draws that your middle set could be a dog equity wise if you were to 3 bet flop and try to get it all in.I think you took a good line here by waiting for the blank turn.Although, depending on your villian, could he be repoppin your flop bet with something as simple as a QJ? I think 3betting flop is a read dependent move here. -
I prefer re-raising it on the flop. I don't really see why you would just call.
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I would probably fold in this spot since the most likely scenario is that you are playing one out. Maybe at $5 PLO the players are clueless enough to weight it towards a call, but folding definitely comes into serious consideration.Suppose that I raise otf, and the pot winds up 3-way, do we fold ?e.g. BTN cold calls, and SB repots -
Raise the flop. You should be ready to get it in against one opponent, but if both opponents want to play, then you are likely in trouble.
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No I don't like this. The thing is that if reraised you're definitely behind villain's range but will probably have to call because of the number of combo draws in villain's range. There might be some small benefit to raising in folding out villain's non-nut flush draws, but I don't think it's enough. Also there's still a third player in the hand who could be trapping.OP's read on villain is that he liked to bluff - so I think the best strategy is not to try to run him off his bluffs, but to let him keep bluffing...This is also why checking the turn is probably better than betting here. You have to compare the value of betting (building a pot with the best hand and folding out hands that would have improved to beat you) to the cost of betting (chance that you are beat and putting in money with the worst of it). And determine whether that is greater than the value of checking (possibility of improving to the best hand on the river and likelihood of provoking a river bluff).I think that based on the likelihood that villain will bluff the river if he misses and based on the relative weakness of your hand overall, there is more value in checking the turn. What were the results?hey does anyone think that maybe with a st8 and flush draw on flop that coming over top the cbet? I mean odviously we probably fold to a reraise back to use from villain but it does charge every single combo draw out there? I mean villain doesn't come back reover top every time does he?* side note: is reover top even a real term lol! You know,..... Do we even fold to a repop if we reraise flop here? I mean with the high chance of combo draws going for stacks here, along with the sets of course, and with a tiny amount of splits, if we reraise pot i could almost ( i stress almost) see going all the way and coin flipping against the combo draws on the flop -
With this hand on this flop, I'm not putting any money in the pot. If the turn and river both blank off and villain bets the river, I might call to pick off a bluff, but other than that I'm pretty much never betting or calling a bet if I don't improve.
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Another possible hand for villain is KJ with redraws, but I don't think this changes too much, really - I still vote for a fold.
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Villain has Ad4d4cQs and just hit bottom set to go with his flush and straight draw. Seriously though, there's no way I can see villain doing this as a bluff expecting you to fold. I think he has you crushed a high % and you should give it up.
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Since they're nits, why not bet about 1/2 pot to protect against gutshots and possibly fold out someone else with 2 pair for a split pot?
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These hands are some of the toughest to play in omaha. Bunch of mediocre stuff against multiple opponents. I think in a tournament, I'm looking for a better spot to pick up chips, and I probably fold the flop or the turn. It might be possible to play this hand in a +EV manner, but it's risking a lot of chips for a fairly small reward. I'm willing to sacrifice some EV to protect my stack here.
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Whether to three-bet depends more on your overall strategy rather than your specific hand. Depending on the strategy you are playing, any of the hands you listed could be a call or a 3 bet. You want to mix up your three-bet range to include your AAxx type hands, but also some other hands so people will not be able to put you on AA exclusively when you three bet. The number of non-AA hands that you three bet will depend on the % of your AA hands that you three bet.The other consideration is the type of hand you should three bet with. The ideal is hands that have good equity against AAxx hands so that you won't have to fold if four bet. This basically means double suited rundown hands like 789Tds and also hands like TT99ds (TT98ds is not quite as good). Bad hands to three bet would be KKxx with bad side cards, or any hand containing an Ace.It also depends on the opponent. For an opponent that always has AA when he raises, then you should never three bet at all. For an opponent that is very loose, you should be willing to three bet with KKxxds or AKxxds type hands because of their good preflop equity. For the typical opponent who raises AAxx and some other premium hands, you can three bet your premium suited connector hands, but you should be cautious to three bet with hands that play badly against aces. So in your specific examples. Hand 1 - if opponent who opens is raising with a lot of garbage hands, then I could consider three-betting, since this hand probably has pretty good equity against his range. If the opponent has Aces a good percent of the time, I would not raise since I will have to fold if three bet.Hand 2 - I probably would almost never three bet, since this hand is pretty crappy. If I three bet it would be with the hope of outplaying opponent post flop, but I don't really play this wayHand 3 - this is not a great hand to three bet because it is unsuited. If it was double suited I would three bet it most of the time.
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This is a pretty severe overstatement.And playing this way is totally exploitable. It's true though that at full ring you don't see a lot of check-raise bluffs. What about just calling to see if villain slows down on the turn? Once you call the cr, villain has to put you on AAxx or 99xx, so I don't think he is likely to continue with his bluff.I think if you just folded every single time you got checkraised at full ring plo with less than the mortal nuts, you'd come out waaay far ahead in the long run. -
Well, villain should be bluffing here at least some of the time. As for me, when I raise pre and an ace flops, I almost always play as though I have top set even when I don't. He could be in there with A9 or A2, at least hypothetically. Idk, its a tough spot, since you're either going to win a small pot or lose a big one. I almost prefer checking back the flop.
Omaha Insight Of The Day
in Other Poker Cash Games
Posted
The most important street in omaha (assuming sufficiently deep stacked 100bb+) is the river. The majority of your profit or loss will come from the decisions you make on the river. You need to know when and how to value bet, when to run a bluff. You can't only value bet when you have the nuts - you have to make thin value bets sometimes. You have to know how much to bet. Maybe you make a big bet with the nuts hoping they will think it is a bluff, maybe you make a smaller bet hoping they will call you lighter. You can bluff the river sometimes but you have put a read on your opponents and read the board texture to find good bluffing spots. You need to figure out which of your opponents will bluff the river and play accordingly. Some opponents bluff at inopportune times - they miss their draws and figure "I can't win by checking" so they bluff, and you can call them on the river with as little as one pair. Some will never bet the river without the nuts or the near nuts. I often see players lose value by not raising the river with 2nd or 3rd best full house. Depending on the board texture and the action, sometimes it is correct to just call, but often a raise is correct. Sometimes players make mistakes by raising small full houses in situations where they are never getting called by worse hands. In one hand today I had JT99 and double-barrell bluffed a 556Q board. The river was a 9 and my opponent raised my bet with 569x (he had a 9 in his hand too, so this was a pretty sick one-outer). This raise makes no sense - if I'm bluffing I will just fold, but if I have him beat he's costing himself almost a full buy-in for the game (we were something like 200 big blinds deep starting the hand).Preflop and flop play is important too, but it comes down to math, you are looking to flip coins getting slightly better than even money odds. But it takes a lot of 60:40 coinflips to make up for the EV of one bad river call for 50bb. And picking off a river bluff for 50bb can make up for a lot of questionable flop play.I really feel that river play is the most important skill in pot limit omaha. Hope you enjoyed my rant.