1/2 Nl Jj Multi-way Pot

[Acid_Knight 2]

The whole point of this thread is the concept of implied odds. Small pairs have a lot of implied odds. Acid Knight is usually dead on with his advice so anyone who disagrees with him needs to work on their game, especially if that person says "You can just ignore the pot odds if you know you're beat."

Man, look at the love that I'm getting!Umm, as for this thread.Rdtedm - What you really need to consider with any small pair is not the 4-1 dog that you are in a preflop situation. The odds you should be looking at are the 7.5-1 (we'll say 8-1 to simplify things) odds that you'll flop a set and stack your opponent. If I KNOW that my opponent has an overpair, I want it to be AA every time because I know that it'll be almost impossible for him to fold it once the flop comes. KK and QQ can see scary overcards, but AA never does. So, back to the point. If I KNOW that my opponent has AA, then what do the stack sizes need to look like?Well, if I open for $8 and the villain (who we hope holds AA) reraises to $28 and has $140 behind, then you need to call here. Basically, the implied odds are that you're going to stack him if you hit and fold if you don't. So, his stack is offering you 8-1 odds to call now isn't it? You have to call $20 to win (implied win) of $160. This means that it's a profitable play, since we rounded up from 7.5-1 to 8-1, meaning that you'll hit your hand slightly more often than we're calculating, making the play profitable. Basically, if you play with this mindset, then you can see every flop where your opponent's stack (and your stack has to be sufficient to take his) is offering those 8-1 odds.This is very simplified because it assumes that your opponent always has a big pair, will always stack off when you hit your set and that you'll always make your decision on the flop. The truth is that "always" terms are always wrong. Sometimes he'll fold when you flop a set on a scary board. Sometimes you'll both flop sets. Sometimes you'll see the turn and/or river for free. Sometimes he'll have AK and you'll have had the best hand all along.The main idea to take away is that with small pairs or suited connectors, you're really not playing the hand based on preflop pot odds, but rather post-flop implied odds and the idea that if you hit your hand squarely, you'll stack your opponent.

[Acid_Knight 2]

TTIUWCJSNOP

Que?

[EurekaKid 0]

Few quick points.What about the reverse implied odds? Flop comes TJQ and he has QQ or AK... and when you flop a set and get it all in and get sucked out on. From memory in Sklansky's No Limit Hold 'Em Theory and Practice this exact hand is basically discussed in depth, you raise with jacks and get re-raised by someone you are sure has aces, even with perfect information in this situation it is mathematically correct to fold when the re-raise is big enough.

[Acid_Knight 2]

First, the reraise was not big enough at all.Second, the reverse implied odds of a pocket pair against a bigger pocket pair are almost always neglected because the odds of you both flopping a set are very slim and that's almost always the only time that the reverse implied odds matter here.