New Challenge (old Challenge)

[ice4804 0]

He's still winning money UTG though, the bigger problem is he is somehow losing money on the button

Probably due to the very small sample size and the lack of fundamentally sound players at 25nl. At anything higher than 25nl, this would just be incredibly spewy (it still is here, too).

[RDog 0]

So funny story about that. Someone randomly mentioned it in the FTP thread I read on 2p2. But they didn't say outright that we won, just something along the lines of 'Haha suck it frenchies' or something like that. So in Phoenix even though it says LIVE on the olympics everything is like 2 hours behind here. So finally the 4X comes on, and the french pull ahead, and its the last leg, and after 50m our guy STILL hasn't made up any ground and I'm like, WTF??? Because I'm expecting the US to win this right? And I was a swimmer growing up, so while I was never great and have long been out of the sport, I have some idea of racing speeds and stuff. And with 50m to go it is UNPOSSIBLE for Lezak to win this. 100% impossible. He is up against the current world record holder in the fricking olympics. I mean, there is just no way. A full body length with 50 to go in a 100m sprint is just a huge lead.So about halfway down he's closed the gap some. And then he's getting closer. And closer. And even though I thought I knew the US was winning this, I'd lost all hope, so now I'm screaming at the TV. COME ON! GOGOGOGOGO!!! 2nd best race imo other than the Gary Hall Jr/Ian Thorpe classic only because those two dudes trash talked each other constantly, and Hall is a Phoenix guy.Mark

Yeah, I felt like a complete idiot in my room by myself screaming at the TV. It was really, really awesome.

[RDog 0]

If there is a discussion about donking going on, I'll add this: I'm starting to do it a lot more because pf raisers don't know WHAT to do about it.Mark

Yup, me too. Cause I know it ****s me up. We need to come up with a good solution though.

[cubsfan44 0]

If there is a discussion about donking going on, I'll add this: I'm starting to do it a lot more because pf raisers don't know WHAT to do about it.Mark

Exactly

[chgocubs99 0]

This might be a bit skewed since I raise almost every button but you play kinda tight OTB. I'd raise more OTB and then fold more OOP. Especially at 50NLHU, I think it's important to not play a lot of hands OOP and you'd probably make more money folding OOP instead of 3-betting a lot to keep them off. Again, your WTSD seems really high, either fold more of your marginal hands or bet to pick up more pots because I gotta believe that's a leak.

I am for the most part seeking out and only playing shortstackers...still apply to your preflop reasoning or change things?

[Kwan Li 0]

I am for the most part seeking out and only playing shortstackers...still apply to your preflop reasoning or change things?

Depends on your shortstacker but in general, I find most shortstackers to be very passive PF and not raising their button a lot which puzzles me about your 3-bet%. It should be significantly lower since their PFR is very low but that's just a generalization to shortstackers. I find that that generalization is true though and I doubt you'll find super aggro shortstackers OTB. I would still probably lower your OOP stats but that's just from my own experience, I don't know the ideal range you would want.I don't have a good OTB range against playing shortstackers because you obv. would raise more TP hands and raise less speculative hands. I play a lot of 40BB and 60BB stacks as well and still maintain a 97/97 OTB so I don't know. Basically, I don't know about that lol.

[ice4804 0]

Yup, me too. Cause I know it ****s me up. We need to come up with a good solution though.

Yes please.I haven't been faced with it very often, but it really flusters me when it does happen. I feel like it is forcing me to either allow them to draw cheaply, inflate the pot when I really don't want to, and/or "raise for info" which by now, I think, has been established is a bad thing to do.

[NoSup4U 0]

Yup, me too. Cause I know it ****s me up. We need to come up with a good solution though.

Call more. Players don't know how to react so they either raise or fold when they really should be calling more. They have position. They have the illusion of a big hand since they raised pf. Its hard for someone to continue given all that without a monster. You really have to know your villains though.Mark

[RDog 0]

Okay, so since this might help people other than Chris, I am going to post basically my range as I go around the table. I play 23/20, 22/19. And yes Jesse and Mark, I realize I'm a nit. This is based on regular table dynamics with no assumptions that a huge donk is in the blinds.Deleted so I can still win money.I just did that real quick and table dynamics might change quite a few things and there is a good chance I left some things out.Please don't quote my range since I am planning on editing it out very soon. If someone sees this later and would like to see it, PM me.

[RDog 0]

Call more. Players don't know how to react so they either raise or fold when they really should be calling more. They have position. They have the illusion of a big hand since they raised pf. Its hard for someone to continue given all that without a monster. You really have to know your villains though.Mark

Well I mean, that has been my solution so far but it gets harder and harder as they start double barreling this.

[chgocubs99 0]

Thanks for that as well as all your help

[cubsfan44 0]

Keep in mind that if youre new to the game Arag can be very hard to play even if its suited. So id tighten up my raising ranges with Ax's if I was still learning. Plus Rdog hand reads better then pretty much anybody at 6 max

[Kwan Li 0]

Okay, so since this might help people other than Chris, I am going to post basically my range as I go around the table. I play 23/20, 22/19. And yes Jesse and Mark, I realize I'm a nit. This is based on regular table dynamics with no assumptions that a huge donk is in the blinds.Here's my range for everyone to see.

Interesting RDog. I fold KQ and AT/AJ more of the time and add some suited connectors in there for 'balancing' but mostly because they look pretty. That's my only comment really, I was just losers with those hands when I looked at those hands UTG.

[cubsfan44 0]

Rdog not sure how many lurkers this thread gets still but you may wanna erase those after a bit. I know next time we're at a table Ill have that post on my desk top.

[RDog 0]

Rdog not sure how many lurkers this thread gets still but you may wanna erase those after a bit. I know next time we're at a table Ill have that post on my desk top.

Sigh.......didn't think about that. Guess I need Kwan Li's help too since he quoted it. Maybe within the hour I will take it down. That still isn't going to always be my true range though.

[chgocubs99 0]

Sigh.......didn't think about that. Guess I need Kwan Li's help too since he quoted it. Maybe within the hour I will take it down. That still isn't going to always be my true range though.

SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE it isn't

[cubsfan44 0]

Sigh.......didn't think about that. Guess I need Kwan Li's help too since he quoted it. Maybe within the hour I will take it down. That still isn't going to always be my true range though.

Nice save

[RDog 0]

Interesting RDog. I fold KQ and AT/AJ more of the time and add some suited connectors in there for 'balancing' but mostly because they look pretty. That's my only comment really, I was just losers with those hands when I looked at those hands UTG.

I just looked at my yearly from UTG with KQo, ATo, AJo..........I am up a pretty big amount with KQ (.7 bb/100), down a little with ATo and up a little with AJo. Sample size is really, really small but it is something I need to keep an eye on.

[mln_falcon 0]

If there is a discussion about donking going on, I'll add this: I'm starting to do it a lot more because pf raisers don't know WHAT to do about it.Mark

It's an interesting hand, discussion I've ever had about one of my hands, would appreciate your input.So do we think that the best thing to do in that hand is to get it in on the turn or call like I did? Possibly even fold? This seems gross against a potentially spewy player

[RDog 0]

LMFAO, nice edit Kwan Li.

[Kwan Li 0]

I just looked at my yearly from UTG with KQo, ATo, AJo..........I am up a pretty big amount with KQ (.7 bb/100), down a little with ATo and up a little with AJo. Sample size is really, really small but it is something I need to keep an eye on.

KQ makes sense because you're usually ahead and most players will think that the K and Q has hit your UTG range. AJ/AT is a little more meh for me because its a hand that's probably going to continue on further streets than KQ in general and so it becomes harder to play OOP for me. That's just for me though, not really much else to say about it.

[Kwan Li 0]

LMFAO, nice edit Kwan Li.

TY, TY. I had a couple other good lines I was thinking of but I went for simplicity.

[psujohn 0]

You really have to know your villains though.

This is huge when facing a donk bet. There's just no "standard" really for what it means. Personally I like to donk monster draws and flopped sets into the right villain/stack/pot size. For the most part I assume donks are weak from most villains until proven otherwise - specially from an aggro villain. I'll typically call with TPGK type hands and raise air/monsters. I think bet sizing on donks means a lot too. Very often an overly small donk bet will indicate a draw/weak hand.

[troyomac 0]

You poker tracker players are all robots.

[cubsfan44 0]

Falcon PM me results in that hand with Abba please