aucu 3 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Are all pols self serving?Here is a link to an article by the guy who is showing what was going on in the "Faith Based" programs in the Whitehouse.Not the hatchet job that I thought it would be.http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...46580-1,00.html Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 "But President George W. Bush is a politician and is ultimately no different from any other politician, content to use religion for electoral gain more than for good works. Millions of Evangelicals may share Bush's faith, but they would protect themselves--and their interests--better if they looked at him through the same coldly political lens with which he views them."Kind of says nothing and everything. I wonder what those who oppose faith-based funding will say...GWB didn't give them any money. Link to post Share on other sites
Zealous Donkey 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Gee, I wonder why this information is coming out now? I't couldn't possibly be to effect the turnout of Christians in the upcoming elections. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 All this "Vote Republican, Vote Democrat" is a bunch of crap. Constituencies consistently, consistently, consistently vote for the man/woman, not the party. If a Party should try to take over, they need to do it on a case-by-case basis, not attack the President or at Party in general. Every candidate tries to portray themsevles as "not part of that mess", and it works usually. Link to post Share on other sites
Zealous Donkey 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 All this "Vote Republican, Vote Democrat" is a bunch of crap. Constituencies consistently, consistently, consistently vote for the man/woman, not the party. If a Party should try to take over, they need to do it on a case-by-case basis, not attack the President or at Party in general. Every candidate tries to portray themsevles as "not part of that mess", and it works usually. I tend to agree with you, but I hope you aren't denying that the timing of the release of this information was designed to keep Christians voting numbers down at the polls because they tend to vote republican. The media continously tries to manipulate the vote, even Oparah Winfrey, watch her show the week of an election and see who her guests are. ( I don't know if this is as prevelent in off year elections, but watch in 2008). The election exit polls have tried to influence the vote for years and only the last couple of elections has it finally been exposed. Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 The media continously tries to manipulate the vote,Both side do!!!! Oprah isn't doing anything that Rush isn't doing!!!!!!!What I find MOST amazing....... Ready.... seriously..... buckle your seat belt.Here is a Christian, that when disgnosed with brain cancer went to his church for them to pray for him to be healed.... Oh wait.. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!He went to a DOCTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Everytime a Christian gets cancer they make a decision between religion and science, and just about EVERY time, they pick science.In God We Trust, my bung hole....... In Science We Trust!!!!!! In God we give thanks to after science has done its best. Link to post Share on other sites
Zealous Donkey 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Both side do!!!! Oprah isn't doing anything that Rush isn't doing!!!!!!!What I find MOST amazing....... Ready.... seriously..... buckle your seat belt.Here is a Christian, that when disgnosed with brain cancer went to his church for them to pray for him to be healed.... Oh wait.. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!He went to a DOCTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Everytime a Christian gets cancer they make a decision between religion and science, and just about EVERY time, they pick science.In God We Trust, my bung hole....... In Science We Trust!!!!!! In God we give thanks to after science has done its best.Agree completely, but Rush admits it. Oprah doesn't. If she admitted it I wouldn't have a problem with it. Going to a doctor doesn't contridict anything in Christian teaching that I understand. I do think a strong faith in God may help the healing process, but certainly doesn't replace what modern medicine can do. Jesus only promise is that he would heal your soul, not every ailment and discomfort that effects you. Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Going to a doctor doesn't contridict anything in Christian teaching that I understand.Of course not, but going to a doctor shows that you place your trust in science higher than your trust in God.I do think a strong faith in God may help the healing process, but certainly doesn't replace what modern medicine can do. Jesus only promise is that he would heal your soul, not every ailment and discomfort that effects you.If faith in the Christian God helps, then so does belief in any false religion. Many studies have shown that Christians do not heal faster nor survive more often or what not... Your outcome has EVERYTHING to do with your financial situation (ability to pay for best care and best medicine) and NOTHING to do with your religion.Ditto for probability of committing a crime. It is purely a factor of your financial situation, not your religion. In fact, on average, atheists and agnostics are least likely to commit a crime, but they are also generally more financially well off. Again, it is a product of your income, not your religion. Link to post Share on other sites
Zealous Donkey 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Of course not, but going to a doctor shows that you place your trust in science higher than your trust in God..No, I trust my doctor with healing my body, and God with healing my soul. quote name='WrongWay' date='Tuesday, October 17th, 2006, 4:29 PM' post='1475533']Ditto for probability of committing a crime. It is purely a factor of your financial situation, not your religion. In fact, on average, atheists and agnostics are least likely to commit a crime, but they are also generally more financially well off. Again, it is a product of your income, not your religion.I disagree with this, there are alot of factors that you are leaving out, most notable family structure, Children living in single mother homnes, are more likely to commit crimes, and not just because of their financial situation. More later. I have to leave for my poker game. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Both side do!!!! Oprah isn't doing anything that Rush isn't doing!!!!!!!What I find MOST amazing....... Ready.... seriously..... buckle your seat belt.Here is a Christian, that when disgnosed with brain cancer went to his church for them to pray for him to be healed.... Oh wait.. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!He went to a DOCTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Everytime a Christian gets cancer they make a decision between religion and science, and just about EVERY time, they pick science.In God We Trust, my bung hole....... In Science We Trust!!!!!! In God we give thanks to after science has done its best. That's just plain idiotic- but let's go ahead and go there. So, about the percentage(most) that die from cancer, does that make science a complete failure? No- but I guarantee that if a relative died close to me that had cancer I would thank God anyway. He knows what it best. However, I would blame science till the day I died when it inevitably failed. See the difference? One may or may not be able to help, one, no matter the outcome, has my best interest in mind. That is the definition of faith. Faith let's you accept the good and the bad, and find the good in a bad outcome. By your reasoning, if I was hungry I wouldn't go to a store- I would ask God for food. If no food came, well then I guess he didn't want me to eat. Link to post Share on other sites
Petoria 0 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 A faith based program that the gov't. has supported for about 80 years....The 12-step program.... js. Link to post Share on other sites
Flack_attack 0 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Ditto for probability of committing a crime. It is purely a factor of your financial situation, not your religion.This is wrong. Ever heard of genes? Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 That's just plain idiotic- but let's go ahead and go there. So, about the percentage(most) that die from cancer, does that make science a complete failure? No- but I guarantee that if a relative died close to me that had cancer I would thank God anyway. He knows what it best. However, I would blame science till the day I died when it inevitably failed. See the difference? One may or may not be able to help, one, no matter the outcome, has my best interest in mind. That is the definition of faith. Faith let's you accept the good and the bad, and find the good in a bad outcome. By your reasoning, if I was hungry I wouldn't go to a store- I would ask God for food. If no food came, well then I guess he didn't want me to eat. I was hoping WrongWay had some sort of clever retort here. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 That's just plain idiotic- but let's go ahead and go there. So, about the percentage(most) that die from cancer, does that make science a complete failure? No- but I guarantee that if a relative died close to me that had cancer I would thank God anyway. He knows what it best. However, I would blame science till the day I died when it inevitably failed. See the difference? One may or may not be able to help, one, no matter the outcome, has my best interest in mind. That is the definition of faith. Faith let's you accept the good and the bad, and find the good in a bad outcome. By your reasoning, if I was hungry I wouldn't go to a store- I would ask God for food. If no food came, well then I guess he didn't want me to eat.How do you know? Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 How do you know? Faith. I have it, you don't. As far as why you bolded the 2nd item, I was drawing a parallel between that point and what WrongWay said earlier. I would obviously never actually do that- I am perfectly capable of retrieving my own food. The statement was designed to show the obvious fallacy in WrongWays statement. Try to catch up. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Faith. I have it, you don't. As far as why you bolded the 2nd item, I was drawing a parallel between that point and what WrongWay said earlier. I would obviously never actually do that- I am perfectly capable of retrieving my own food. The statement was designed to show the obvious fallacy in WrongWays statement. Try to catch up.So you don't know but you believe God wants people to starve?Why do you believe that? Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 So you don't know but you believe God wants people to starve?Why do you believe that? Dude, what are you talking about? Read the thread so you have half an idea of what is being talked about. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Dude, what are you talking about? Read the thread so you have half an idea of what is being talked about.Do you believe your all powerful God wants people to die of hunger?If not, why do you believe that God's "perfect plan" has to include suffering? Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Do you believe your all powerful God wants people to die of hunger?If not, why do you believe that God's "perfect plan" has to include suffering? I believe that God does averything and anything to take care of christians, like he said he would. Past that he promised nothing to heathens and unbelievers, so I don't worry about it. A perfect plan would have to include suffering- for everything there is an opposite, that's just a law of nature. In order for there to be riches there must be poverty. In order for there to be plenty there must be little, drought must have rain, etc. In order to choose there must be choices. Understand? Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I believe that God does averything and anything to take care of christians, like he said he would. Past that he promised nothing to heathens and unbelievers, so I don't worry about it. A perfect plan would have to include suffering- for everything there is an opposite, that's just a law of nature. In order for there to be riches there must be poverty. In order for there to be plenty there must be little, drought must have rain, etc. In order to choose there must be choices. Understand?How do you know? Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 How do you know? And, let me make this clear- if you highlight something and say "How do you know?" I will leap through this screen and whoop you like a red-headed step child. I'm just serious. Still applies. Add something constructive, or go away. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 And, let me make this clear- if you highlight something and say "How do you know?" I will leap through this screen and whoop you like a red-headed step child. I'm just serious. Still applies. Add something constructive, or go away.How is asking questions a bad thing? Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 How is asking questions a bad thing? Add something, or go away. I have never used the ignore option on anybody. Don't make me start today. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I believe that God does averything and anything to take care of christians, like he said he would. Past that he promised nothing to heathens and unbelievers, so I don't worry about it. A perfect plan would have to include suffering- for everything there is an opposite, that's just a law of nature. In order for there to be riches there must be poverty. In order for there to be plenty there must be little, drought must have rain, etc. In order to choose there must be choices. Understand?How do you know? Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 How do you know? The bible tells me so- and, once again, I believe in the bible. Now, make a case ot get out. Seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
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