[tourney play] betting against a draw?

[Comatose_Soul 0]

This is a pretty old hand, but figured it might be fun to get some thoughts on my play, and betting against a draw specifically.(10+1 at PS) Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200)Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: bivy (18125 in chips) Seat 2: potzer (2383 in chips) Seat 3: corndog04 (5025 in chips) Seat 4: jay843 (14505 in chips) Seat 5: Riverboat45 (6260 in chips) Seat 6: rspect (8395 in chips) Seat 7: LilPedro (27490 in chips) Seat 8: sixers03 (15040 in chips) Seat 9: MartinBosek (825 in chips) bivy: posts the ante 25potzer: posts the ante 25corndog04: posts the ante 25jay843: posts the ante 25Riverboat45: posts the ante 25rspect: posts the ante 25LilPedro: posts the ante 25sixers03: posts the ante 25MartinBosek: posts the ante 25corndog04: posts small blind 100jay843: posts big blind 200*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to bivy [Ah 8h]Riverboat45: folds rspect: folds LilPedro: folds sixers03: folds MartinBosek: folds bivy: calls 200potzer: folds corndog04: calls 100jay843: checks I could have played position here, but I'm not sure it would have changed the outcome of the hand. The only thing I could see happening is me raising up 5-10xBB, jay843 coming over the top and then me folding. I'm not sure jay843 would have done anything other than call though.*** FLOP *** [Ad 8s 4s]corndog04: checks jay843: checks bivy: bets 1000corndog04: folds jay843: calls 1000 I put jay843 on a flush draw at this point. I was pretty confident with top two pair, after he simply called. From previous play I wouldn't expect him to call with a gutshot draw.*** TURN *** [Ad 8s 4s] [6c]jay843: checks bivy: bets 2000jay843: raises 11280 to 13280 and is all-inbivy: calls 11280 I was feeling really good at this point, pretty confident I had the best hand. When he pushes all-in I call relatively quickly, and see he is in fact on a flush draw.*** RIVER *** [Ad 8s 4s 6c] [Js]*** SHOW DOWN ***jay843: shows [As Qs] (a flush, Ace high)bivy: shows [Ah 8h] (two pair, Aces and Eights)jay843 collected 29385 from pot My dreams crushed! The river brings the dagger to the heart for me when jay843 makes his A high flush, and collects all my moneys.So outside of what specifically I might have been able to change in this hand, does anyone have thoughts on general tourney play against an oponent on a draw? Specifically a flush draw? Gernerally always go for it? Back off opponents that have you covered? Back off in the earlier rounds of the tourney?I normally find myself attacking whenever I think I have the best hand. This has caused me a few problems in tournaments, and as much fun as chalking everything up to bad beats is, I'm sure I can improve Besides who cares if your the favorite if its only by a few percentage points.

[wrto4556 0]

Raise preflop.Everything else looks good. Tough break.

[pokerplayer75 0]

There's no way you can get your opponent to fold top pair and flush draw.

[Comatose_Soul 0]

There's no way you can get your opponent to fold top pair and flush draw.

No argument here ;)My main interest is really diving into Tourney strategy though. As I mentioned previously I generally have a very hard time backing down in situations like the one I posted above (where I feel I'm leading an opponent on a draw.) I don't know that I've made up my mind as to whether this is good or bad.Online, the 'new' poker crowd seem to be more willing to chase (I think you see this in live tournaments a lot more today as well.) I figured I would see if anyone here had any deep thoughts related to this.Going back to the hand above again, I was already in good position chip wise, and didn't really have a lot invested when my opponent pushed all-in -- that very well could have been a spot where it would have been 'smart' to lay down even though I felt I was ahead.

[KDawgCometh 2]

you were way ahead. He needs 12 outs to beat you on the river. You were almost a 4-1 fav to win that pot. You can't find yourself in too many better situations there

[pokerplayer75 0]

I really don't see why you would lay down a hand that you feel is the best hand. If you felt he was on a draw you have to that 75 percent chance that you would win the hand when he went all in on the turn. Those are great odds. If you win you'll take down a major pot and most likely win the tournament. Of course if you lose you're out in a bad position but I would take that risk however it's really up to you. What you didn't realize is that he also had an ace so he had more outs but on the turn now you are the favorite. But still the only way to fold is if you think he has a set. I think he would have raised with pocket pair preflop. If you don't want people chasing their draws, simply bet more (in this situation you should have bet more on the turn). I would have made a pot sized bet. And if you really just want to take the pot go all in. This was one of those situations where you guys are 50 50 on the flop. Both of you guys think you have the best hand. Honestly, these kinds of hands don't bother me at all. They just play themselves. I wouldn't think twice about it.

[Guest XXEddie]

raise it preflop, it might have matter, if you raise the guy with AQs might think if he raises again or goes allin you might be able to fold but I dont think you getting him to fold ever, not iwht TP and nut flush draw