nl touney tonight, some quick qestions...

[All_In 0]

1) let's say i flopped the nut flush draw. would a standard bet be the size of the pot? does that give me value in the long run?2) I heard u should never chase an inside straight. something like 11:1 odds i think. i guess this is a basic rule to play by? if short-stacked what would u do?3) i have been playing mainly limit .5/1, this tourney is NL. i have some experience w/ NL, but i am worried that i might be holding on to some limit strategies that do not apply in NL.Can anyone give me some pointers, or things i should be aware of when making this transistion? would it make sense to play this tourney as if it were limit (BB bets and raises) unless i was dealt a monster (AA, KK, QQ, AK)?THANKS!!

[dna4ever 2]

1) let's say i flopped the nut flush draw. would a standard bet be the size of the pot? does that give me value in the long run?2) I heard u should never chase an inside straight. something like 11:1 odds i think. i guess this is a basic rule to play by? if short-stacked what would u do?3) i have been playing mainly limit .5/1, this tourney is NL. i have some experience w/ NL, but i am worried that i might be holding on to some limit strategies that do not apply in NL.Can anyone give me some pointers, or things i should be aware of when making this transistion? would it make sense to play this tourney as if it were limit (BB bets and raises) unless i was dealt a monster (AA, KK, QQ, AK)?THANKS!!

Dont know if these are 'correct' answers, but the way i would play them ....1) If you raised preflop then I would make a standard continuation bet 2/3rd to pot sized bet after the flop and see what kind of response you get. If you called a raise preflop and you are first to act I would make a similiar probe bet to see of the original raiser just calls or gives u more action (then I would lay it down if reraised depending on odds and bet size). Remember you have 35% chance to hit your flushif you get to see the next 2 cards so look at the pot odds being given to you and make your decisions from there2) Inside straight draw is like 16 or 17% chance to hit by the river. Again look at your pot odds and make a decision if it is a good call or not.3) My recommendation on monsters like KK and AA is to raise and try to isolate the action to 1 (maybe 2) players. The last thing you want is a multiway pot/action with a monsterGood luck

[Devilkin 0]

1) Flopped the nut flush draw . . depends on the size of the pot and position. If you are early, a smaller raise, or even a check is called for, since there is a good possibility there may be a raise after you.2) Chasing an inside straigh isn't a bad idea, if the pot odds are there. If you have a pair or a flush draw in addition to chasing the inside straight, the odds of hitting a bigger hand increase,.3) Im much more agressive in NL than in limit. Its much easier with a fair sized bet to pair down the field preflop so you are only competing with a few hands, instead of 5 or 6. (unless you are on the draw and thats what you want). Use your bets and raises for value (you have the cards, so pay me), for information (I have second high pair, lets bet and see who raises, indicating they may have something stronger) or to reduce the field (TPTK, so lets get rid of the draw hands).This is not gospel . . just my opinions.GL with the tourney!!!Dev

[jayistheman 0]

1. there is value if you think that you can take it down right here.... the last thing you want to do is make this pot heads up... let people in. raise when you feel you have pot equity. you are drawing , after all (though it is to the nuts) and that's never fun in a heads up pot... especially in NL.2. if i have a gutshot, i will see the turn usually... if it's cheap. this can really pay you off if someone is slow playing top 2 pair or a set. sometimes i will do the "amateur play" that phil referenced in the TOC... that is bet with my gutshot, and hope to back into it on the turn.... often you can take pots down on the flop in a tight game anyway...... its always hilarious when you lead with your gutshot, get called, hit on the turn.... and he was drawing to the same one.... it's happened to me before.3. the one-over bet is never respected in NL... people still call it with rags... it basically just makes the pot twice as big because nobody folds. i like to pick an average sized opener based on the texture of the table... if 4x raise is being respected, then i will raise 4x... there are two trains of thought on opening raises... -open for the same amount every time-open for random amounts.... read harrington's book for a good explanation of this (say he has JJ... he will raise 3x 40% and raise 5x 60%.... if the second hand of his watch is in the first 40% of a rotation, he raises 3x... if it is after that he will raise 5x)both methods make you impossible to read pre flop (as far as betting patterns are concerned)

[rog 0]

1) let's say i flopped the nut flush draw. would a standard bet be the size of the pot? does that give me value in the long run?2) I heard u should never chase an inside straight. something like 11:1 odds i think. i guess this is a basic rule to play by? if short-stacked what would u do?3) i have been playing mainly limit .5/1, this tourney is NL. i have some experience w/ NL, but i am worried that i might be holding on to some limit strategies that do not apply in NL.Can anyone give me some pointers, or things i should be aware of when making this transistion? would it make sense to play this tourney as if it were limit (BB bets and raises) unless i was dealt a monster (AA, KK, QQ, AK)?THANKS!!

I am by no means a pro, but I'll take a shot, and take my lumps if I'm wrong.1) In a loose game where you know you will get lots of callers, you can bet the flush draw, but you want to make sure the bet is something most will call. The thing with draws (and especially nut draws) is you want as many callers as you can get so it pays you more for every dollar you bet making it worth chasing. A pot sized bet will likely fold a lot of your opposition making it the wrong odds for you to be chasing your draw. I usually check here, and call a raise where the pot odds dictate. If you had a made flush rather than a draw, my advice would be different.2) Chase the inside straight (or any draw for that matter) when your pot odds dictate. For example, if the bet to call is less than 10% the current pot side, you can justify chasing because the payoff when you hit is worth it. If it's not the nut straight, or if the board is paired or showing a flush possibility, err on the side of caution. Nothing worse than making a pot-odds call to draw your straight, and then going down in flames to a flush, boat or better straight. Even a runner-runner flush can be chased if the pot is big pre-flop and the post-flop raise is small enough.3) Learn more about betting strategy for NL. Your question 1 indicates to me that you may not know why you are betting in various scenarios. Learn the difference between betting to protect a hand that is ahead but fragile (a pot sized bet for example), betting nut hands for value (getting as much money in the middle as possible), and betting or calling with draw hands (need callers). They are vastly different things. Make sure you know pot-odds and implied odds.

[Devilkin 0]

Jay has an excellent point - vary your betting. One thing that NL lets you do is peg the cards your opponent has preflop by remembering their betting pattern.Throw in a changeup from time to time . . . either over or underbet. Daniel is the master of 'keeping them guessing' and it seems to work well.Dev

[justblaze 0]

Jay has an excellent point - vary your betting. One thing that NL lets you do is peg the cards your opponent has preflop by remembering their betting pattern.Throw in a changeup from time to time . . . either over or underbet. Daniel is the master of 'keeping them guessing' and it seems to work well.Dev

actually varying your betting allows for far greater readability than making the same opening bet every time. its much more complicated to disguise your hand with varied bets (although it can be done and is much more effective for a skilled player) than by making a standard raise for a novice player.

[Devilkin 0]

actually varying your betting allows for far greater readability than making the same opening bet every time. its much more complicated to disguise your hand with varied bets (although it can be done and is much more effective for a skilled player) than by making a standard raise for a novice player.

I'll bite - want to explain your rationalle for this statement?Dev

[justblaze 0]

actually varying your betting allows for far greater readability than making the same opening bet every time. its much more complicated to disguise your hand with varied bets (although it can be done and is much more effective for a skilled player) than by making a standard raise for a novice player.

I'll bite - want to explain your rationalle for this statement?Dev

sure. by varying your bets, you are unintentionally giving away information each time. maybe not the first few times, but if you dont have experience with this tactic you will subconsciously revert to the 'correct' bet more often than not, or you will over-disguise your hands (like min raising with AA). good players will be able to decipher your bets fairly quickly. by making the same bet every time, the only info you give is "i have a hand, im going to play it, and its worth a raise". could be 44, could be AK, could be J10s. the only info you've given is that its worth a raise, your opponents cannot possibly gain anything via analyzing the amount. Its a good trap too. some players will get frustrated with not being able to put you on a hand, and start coming over the top with marginal hands. when you catch a big one you will get paid.

[jayistheman 0]

thats why i mentioned the hand on the watch thing..do it randomly...

[FromTheRail 0]

Ok, so you are switching from limit to no-limit, I will assume you are fairly prolific in your limit play. The big difference between limit and no-limit is the fact that you can get broke on one hand as opposed to the fact you can make a mistake in limit and live to fight another battle. If you are going to play flush draws, make sure they are to the nuts and do not stake large amounts of your chips to chase it down. I wouldn't risk more than 7 and at most 10% of your stack on a draw.....its just bad in no limit! The other idea when playing a flush draw, is you would like it against someone with some chips to trap them for. The implied odds of hitting your flush are better when you can get a lot of chips if you make the hand as compared to risking a lot of your stack to not really get any value in return. Since you are new to the no-limit concept, I would stick to pretty fundamental bet amounts, about 3-5x the bb. This way you can remain consistant and not give up to much info. 1/2 to 2/3 and possibly pot size bets after the flop will work just fine for you.Just remember that limit is more science and no-limit is more art. Their is going to be a learning curve, but if you keep things simple until you feel more comfortable you will be doing yourself a favor. The more comfortable you become the more you can start to experiment and get out of line a little more.

[All_In 0]

thanks for all the replies!!! :-) i find i play NL better live as opposed to online. i think since u can lose your whole stack in NL on a hand, it's better suited to playing live, where u can see your opponents.at least for me.