[Boat Turn And A Donkbet?]

Why on earth should we give villain correct odds to draw to his flush? We want him to call with incorrect odds, that's what makes it a +EV play.

He drawin dead, thats why i guesss and we beggin for a calll!

Yep. I want this donk to at least feel comfortable about calling for his flush. In fact, I want it to be +EV for him! If he makes his flush, you're getting his whole stack anyway, regardless of what happened on the turn.

[Boat Turn And A Donkbet?]

1) You aren't considering implied odds.2) It's 10NL.

1) I'm perfectly happy with raising here! I'd just raise to 0.80 or $1. Though I doubt this 10NL villain is considering implied odds either2) Fair point!

[Boat Turn And A Donkbet?]

If villain is on a draw, we won't get anymore money unless villain hits. Turn is an easy raise. Villain will call with draws.

Yeah I was leaning towards a minraise, he might call more though I guess. Worth a try.

Raise to $1.50 ... he's calling with the spade draw... if he hits you get paid off.... if he misses you got some value out of it by RAISING the turn...

$1.50? Again, worth a try but you need to give him to correct pot odds to call here. Making a flush in one card is only around 19%. Obviously he might just call anyway, as it's 10NL.

[Boat Turn And A Donkbet?]

This is a horrible, weak bet from V. He bets less than you did on the flop! Really this looks like a blocker bet so I'm putting him on a spade draw here. Let him get his draw. I'd just flat call here, or possibly minraise for value. He might call a minraise and if he misses on the river at least you got another 4BB out of him. Also, the minraise might induce a shove...it happens.If he flopped a higher boat with 88, then he's playing it very strangely and I'm probably paying him off for it.

[Call Or Fold? (ignore...just Me Rambling To Myself)]

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with Q K :spade:UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, BTN calls $0.10, 1 fold, BB checksFlop: ($0.55) 7 T J (5 players)BB checks, UTG bets $0.30, MP1 calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, BB foldsTurn: ($1.75) 9 (4 players)UTG bets $0.40, MP1 raises to $1, Hero raises to $6, BTN folds, UTG folds, MP1 calls $5River: ($14.15) 8 (2 players)MP1 checks, Hero bets $3.70, MP1 calls $3.65 all inFinal Pot: $21.45MP1 shows 9 8 (a straight, Seven to Jack)Hero shows Q K (a straight, Nine to King)Hero wins $20.45(Rake: $1.00)

Hah! I have had this exact hand happen to me before. Flop the concealed straight with 89s with a flush draw, and Villain (in this case you!) ends up making the higher straight with KQ. Absolute nightmare and very hard to get away from. Got stacked obviously. Sorry just had to mention it as it gave me a chuckle when I read through it.

[Wsope]

Hi all,Had the pleasure of spending most of this weekend at the Empire Casino in London watching the WSOP Europe, £1000 NLHE event. Basically the baby brother to the 10k main event - which is in a couple of weeks. Most of the pros who'll play the main event turned out for this event aswell, which was awesome. However the main reason I was there was to watch and support my friend Said, who qualified for this event via satellite a few weeks ago.Within 30 seconds of stepping into the casino at around 2pm, I clocked Antonio Esfandiari at the tables, wearing bright luminous orange as usual. His stack was nothing special and he was nowhere to be found an hour or so later...busted! As I arrived at table 1, where my friend was playing, I noticed a large portly man with a crutch and a cowboy hat standing accross the room...clearly none other than one of my idols Doyle Brunson himself! He was chatting to another player, long dark hair, moustache and also in a cowboy hat, Chris 'Jesus' Ferguson. Doyle was obviously not playing (or already bust) but Chris Ferguson was, and in fact he came and sat down on table 2, right next to John Juanda. It was like a who's who of tournament and high stakes pros, freaking awesome. But no Daniel Negreanu! Whatsup with that DN? . Chat around the casino also indicated that Phil Helmuth went bust on the Friday, so no high profile temper tantrums for me to witness ;)My friend Said had doubled up early with a straight, but was tempering his usual LAG style by playing a cautious Kill-Phil poker, shoving whenever he thought he had the best hand pre or post, but folding anything else. Noteable hands included:-AIPF with AA vs JJ - doubled up-Lost a large chunk of chips calling a river value bet with the short end of a straight vs the nut straight-AI on the flop wih KK vs J9 2pair (yes the villain had called a preflop raise to defend his big blind with J9o). Said hits a king on the turn to double.So at about 10.30pm Said is sitting fairly comfortably, just above the tourney average in chips. Players had come and gone as the tables broke up throughout the day, but we were soon in for a shock. A guy in a large black hoody and sweat pants quietly slips into the seat opposite Said, and it takes us all a few seconds to realise its Phil Ivey! Said's face says it all, as do the faces of most of the other amateurs at the table. No sooner has Ivey sat down than those eyes are all over the table, sizing people up and taking in everything. I settle in for an hour or so of watching the great man himself. Ivey's first played hand is nothing special though, mucking a bluff to his opponent's ace-high. Hmm.About half an hour later, Ivey and another player both limp. The board comes J-7-6 Villain checks and Ivey bets strong, Villain calls. The turn is an Ace and Villain donkbets into Ivey who stares at him for what seemed like 5 minutes, before quietly saying "all in". Villain insta-calls and shows A6 for 2pair, against Iveys A8, and that's it! Ivey picks up his hoody, says "nice call" or somthing like that, and strolls away, busted! Villain can't hide his glee and is beaming for the next ten minutes. By the way, any thoughts on this hand!? Looks ot me like Ivey thought Villain had paired the Jack or the ten, and figured his ace was good. Expect A6 was the last hand he would've put the V on.Anyway my buddy made it through day 1 staying around the chip average. On day 2, I arrive after he's already made it into the money (top 65 places) and I can't help but think how much I would love to be in his position right now - playing poker for the rest of the day knowing you already made over £2000 for the weekend . He goes on a run of pre-flop All-ins to take 4 rounds of blinds & antes in a row, showing AKs on the last one to gain some respect from the table. Using this respect, he builds up his stack further and then doubles with a great read, JJ vs 99 AIPF. He now has 80k chips, average is 40k. He represents a flush (I dont know yet whether he had it) to push a guy off a hand and rake in another 20k. Unfortunately I then had to leave, but I followed the action on betfair's website fo the rest of the night. By then he is in the top 15 and the game has turned into 2-card ship-it poker, which is what I hate about tournaments. He doubles again with AQs vs AKs when the queen hits the turn. So close to the final table, he finally busts out to the chip leader (a frenchman - Fabien something) with AQ vs 77, the sevens hold. Said finishes in 13th place, for a payout of just under £7000!!It was a great weekend, great to see some pros in the flesh and great to see my friend playing some solid positional poker and cashing deep, earning himself 6 months salary in one weekend (he is a barman/waiter so this is literally true!). My only sour note is simply that watching the game, at all stages really but especially deep in the bubble, just confirmed to me why I don't really like tournament poker. The push/fold ship-it mentality means there are coin tosses for stacks every 2 minutes, and all you're really doing is trying to get a read to catch someone in a blind-stealing bluff, or waiting for AQ+ or a decent PP. In the last hour I think I saw 2, maybe 3 flops . Anyway, congrats to Said and despite my reservation about tourney poker, I do rekon I'll try to qualify next year just for the buzz of playing a live tourney with some pros.Thanks for reading.

[How Much Money Would You Have In Your Bankroll]

Just an update, did buy in today with a full stack, played about 3.5 hours and now my bankroll is at 252.00 so I definitly had a good couple hours. Going to stay at .05/.10 till I get my BR to 500. then move to .10/.25. Im just trying to be super cautious..

you went from 187 to 252 in 3.5 hours on just one table??btw good call to wait until 500 to move up stakes - bankroll management is the nuts.

[How Much Money Would You Have In Your Bankroll]

about 20 Buyins is fine so I think you can play with a fullstack now!

Agreed, ~$200 is more than a safe amount for fullstack at 0.5/0.10. and many people would play even less, as CobaltBlue says above

[The Zergling Swarm]

Thanks TNAlso, a bit cheeky i know - but is there any way you can post that hands index table thats in your OP, in some other form? Like just plain text!? For some reason it doesn't show up on my work pc. Probably blocked by the bizarrely inconsistent web filter here..no worries if not

[Monster Draw Or Just A Gamble?]

Realise I hid the most important part of the hand, but figured you guys would check it anyway.

The OESD+FD is the monster draw, but it's not nearly as powerful on the turn.

@ jmbreslin - I think this is the main problem; when I pick it up on the turn it screws me slightly because I overplay it by betting. Should prbably just take the free river card.

where was the villain (was this heads up), how tight has the table been? How tight as he been? and what could he had been opening? In general monster draws are great because no matter what he has (set, draw, two pair)

@ rrumsey - No this wasn't a HU game, although we were heads up to the flop obviously. Regarding your other questions, I wasn't really giving his hand much thought at all, because I knew I would lose if i didn't hit anyway.

We already had the big Draw on the Flop. So perhaps a slightly bigger bet on the Flop. I'm going to go ahead and respond with the spoiler known. The Villain's shove really makes me think he has the A/9 which takes away one of our Heart outs. On the Turn we are better than a 2:1 dog and only getting something like 2:1 to make the Call (Check my math, I think we need to call an additional $6.35 to make $12.85....Bottom Line: I think we are on the fence of marginality. Call to show you came to play.

@ Pot Odds RAC - Agree, bigger bet on the flop is right, if only to give me the proper odds to call the shove. As played, I think I'm calling slightly -EV but still not suicidal. Also, bang on with the read - villain has A9. Love your last line Sad end to the story is I did call, river was a lame deuce. Thanks guys.

[Monster Draw Or Just A Gamble?]

I've been reading recently (on this forum actually) that you should play 'monster draws' as if they are a big hand, because you are usually the favourite to win by the river. I had one last night, and although I couldn't calculate the odds and outs in the heat of the moment, I'd like your opinion on it:0.05/0.10 5-handed cash game-----------------------------Hero: 10.90Villain: 9.50Hero is on the button with: Qh Jh- V raises to 0.40, Hero calls.FLOP: [Ah Ts 4h] (pot ~$1)- Villain checks. Hero bets 0.75. V calls. (Hero has inside straight and flush draw)TURN: [Ah Ts 4h] [9c] (pot ~$2.50)- Hero now has open-end-straight & flush draw. First question: What would you do here? Conitnuation and next question in white below:Continuation:- V checks. Hero bets 2. V goes all in. Hero...If I call this with my 'monster' draw, what are my chances of hitting? Is this a +EV call? Seems to me that I have 4 kings, 4 eights and 9 hearts (minus the 2 straight cards = 7 hearts) = 15 outs = roughly 30% to get there in one card. Is this right? Villain clearly has at least paired his Ace

[The Zergling Swarm]

OP is very interesting. I'm playing .05/.10 with a ~40-50 bankroll so i think i qualify for this strat for the moment (?)2 questions though:1) why do shortstacks 'have a mathematical advantage on early streets'?2) does this strat work on 5/6-max tables? If not why not and is there an adjustment I can make?

[Flop A Set In 3-way Raised Pot]

Board reads A94; turn is a 678TJQK and no straight is possible... Did I misread the statement?

KingJames, the wheel straight is possible here with 23, when a 5 comes. Doyle's statement always holds true because ace is high and low, that's why it works. If I can put my 2c in about this 're-raise' debate. I knew exactly what he meant so no big deal. But then again, I get vexed when people get you're/your and to/too wrong so meh..

[Akos In Bb]

1st hand - fold unless you want a coin flip2nd hand - looks like everyone called your flop bet because it was too small (less than half the pot if I'm counting right). probably facing a spade draw or two, and a strong 10. Bet big or shove on the turn to get rid of the draws and if you're lucky you get called by the ten. If you're facing a set, you're facing a set, end of story!

[Where Is The Gamemanship?]

Too bad so sad IMO maybe I'm a dick for thinking this but If you dont have the stomach to show what everyone already knows is a bluff then the very fact that he "called the bluff" should be reason enough to award him the pot.

Interesting way of thinking about it.You're giving more credit for the 'read' than for the actual cards involved. Its almost as if you're saying Reinkemeier played better poker on that hand so he should get the pot. Only problem with that is that his read can't've been that accurate if he thought his Q high was good enough.

[Where Is The Gamemanship?]

I have no problem with his actions, right up to the point where he felt the need to show the Qhi and make a big scene of it. If he doesn't do that, we never read about this hand and nobody thinks he's a dick.Other guy refuses to show, mucks hand. Winner taps table, dealer pushes him the pot, winner slides cards to dealer face down, gg. If the player who mucked first asks to see the guy's hand, that's his problem.

Agreed 100%, that is how it should've gone down, and that is perfectly within the rules.I also agree with this:

Poker players should abide by their own set of unwritten rules and one of them should be: If you see your hand has been beaten by your opponent with no action remaining, then let the pot be awarded to that player.

He is beaten, quite simply bceause he has the worst poker hand. And more importantly, he knows he is beaten because the other guy showed him. That should be it right there. imho.

[Flop A Set In 3-way Raised Pot]

My immediate thought after they both folded was indeed that I should've made a smaller raise to bring the ace along with me. I think I'm putting MP on AJ and LP on jacks or queens here, although at the time of playing the hand all I was thinking was 'someone has an ace'. I agree that we raise for value, and I was certainly hoping to be called by one guy at least, but I guess I raised too hard.

[Flop A Set In 3-way Raised Pot]

Really don't post results so soon. Try to give a bit more details too, i.e. stack sizes, maybe something about how they play, etc.

I really only get to post here from work, so don't have access to my hand history or a converter - hence the lack of detail. Apologies though. Expect a few other people are in this situation?Anyway yeah I think it's one of those situations where I have to raise, but I want at least one of them to call me with the ace. Didn't happen this time...

[Flop A Set In 3-way Raised Pot]

The idea that one of these guys might have a higher set should be the furtherst thing from your mind right now.

Yeah, it definately was!I think most people will be up for a raise here. I was tempted to flatcall just to induce another bet, or hoping another ace fell on the turn giving them trips to my boat. Bit early for the results maybe, but here it is anyway: I raised to 6 (slightly more than you suggested) and they both folded. Can only assume MP made a bluff cbet and LP made a donk call and was looking for an excuse to get out. I guess they weren't in the mood to party shame. Perhaps if I'd raised 2.5 or 3 times the bet, I might've got more value? Then again, I would be kicking myself if a straight came. I remember reading the NLHE chapter in Super/System where Brunson shows that whenever there's a single ace on the flop, the next card can make someone a straight.

[Flop A Set In 3-way Raised Pot]

Faced this nice problem last night. I was running a small loss at the time after trying to bluff idiots, but anyway...0.05/0.10 cash game (5 handed)---------------------- I Hold 44 on the button- Middle position raises to 0.35- Late position re-raises to 0.70- I call (for the position) so does MP*FLOP* 4-T-A rainbow- MP bets 1.50- LP callswhat do you do here? fairly certain MP made a hefty cbet to represent AK or similar, but LPs call is probably genuine as he actually does have the AK. All I'm worried about is TT or donk inside stright draw (KQ, QJ, JK). But right now, I'm sure I'm ahead with a nice concealed set.If I just call - I can probably induce another round of betting/bluffing on the turn as long as there's no straight card (9,J,K,Q), then push all in to take the pot.If I raise small - I might get called by one or both players but that'll slow them down on the turn (unless they did have TT or god forbid, AA). alternatively, I might induce a push, which I will certianly have to call.If I raise big - they'll fold with anything other than a higher set, wouldn't they?What do you rekon?

[Could You Lay These Down?]

Thx for the advice and welcomes.Since posting, the guy on the other forum who told me to fold both hands has pretty much been shredded on that forum too. Obviously makes me happier about my play on these hands. Absolutely could not fold top set on the first hand, although hindsight makes you think you can, but you really can't.I totally understand I can't fear the nuts all the time and i certainly wouldn't do it on the first hand, but when I got raised on the 2nd hand what could I really beat? 66, AK, or A6(probably suited) beat me, and at least 2 of those 3 hands are viable given the 'low' stakes and my min-re-raise (point noted by the way, should've raised more). A hard fold but maybe a pro would've made it?!

[Could You Lay These Down?]

Welcome to FCP!Both of the hands you posted are coolers and I can't see folding either one. Converters are free at flopturnriver.com and posting hands in the specific section for the game will also get more feedback. There is a section for all games and tournaments here so take advantage of it. Oh yeah, don't post results like Sick Boy said because it affects peoples judgement.

Thanks puke, will post in appropriate section from now on . So i assume you don't give much credit to the comment I got from the other forum? I'm inclined to think I could've folded to the checkraise on the first hand given that it was a tight table.. but still damn hard to throw away top set.

[Could You Lay These Down?]

The size of the stakes makes a difference because generally, the higher the stakes are the more seriously people are gonna take each hand, so players will be putting alot more thought into what they're actually doing. Whereas at lower stakes, most of the time players are just trying to have fun and arent taking the game to seriously, so their range of hands for getting all their chips in is generally gonna be MUCH wider than those at higher stakes. As a result, laying down the 2nd or 3rd nuts is just...well...silly.

I hear you there, but remember I usually play 0.05/0.10 so these are fairly high stakes for me and I was certianly taking the game seriously!Also, you might be interested to read a comment I got on another forum about the first hand (I won't put the name of the poster or forum):

Your betting strategy was well off. When the blinds are .12/.25 and you raise to .75, it makes very good sense for someone to call to see the flop when they have something like KJ. The point behind a good raise pre-flop is to discourage loose players from joining the fray (the last thing you want with AA) and to establish yourself as the dominant hand. He checked, you bet $1 and then he re-raised. The only thing this can possibly mean is trouble. Unless you are absolutely certain you hold the nuts, just fold. KJ isn't a completely stupid hand to be wanting to see the flop with so the assumption that he has a straight when the flop is A-Q-T shouldn't be far from your mind. One of the first rules, your cards don't matter as much as what your opponent may have.

Perhaps this just confirms your point about not stating the results of the hands when asking for advice?!

[Could You Lay These Down?]

Ok thanks for the comments, I convinced myself that I should've seen these coming but good to know they're just payoff hands. Can I ask why the size of the stakes makes any difference?Also, regarding your reprimand(!), I'll take it on board of course. But saying that, I see that other people post their entire HH here right down to the result, so I figured it was the norm. Noted though.

[Could You Lay These Down?]

Hi guys,Just joined up, mainly to join in discusisons and get some advice on hand histories. I am an average player, who can grind out profit on nickel/dime tables but always loses whenever I try to move up stakes. I have a couple of hands I'd like you to look at, and my question is, could you lay these down? I will get a converter soon but for now, I'm just writing them from memory.1st hand--------Game: 0.12/0.25 5-handed cash game at redbet (mainly european site on the bossmedia netwrok)- I hold AA on the button and make a small raise to 0.75 (table was tight and I wanted to keep players in the hand)- I get one caller, the BB- Flop comes A, Q, T. There is no flush draw.- He checks, I bet $1- He raises to $3.50- At this point I put him on TT, or QT for 2-pair. QQ is out because I think he would've re-raised preflop.- I go all in and he calls.- He shows JK for the straight.Is this just a hand I have to pay off, or did I donk it?2nd hand---------Same game stakes as above, different table.- I hold AQ on the button.- Late position makes a weak raise of 0.75, so I re-raise to 1.50.- Middle position player calls, original raisor folds, - Flop comes A, A, 6.- I bet 3/4 pot.- He raises, I go all in, he calls and shows AK ofr the win with the kickerThis hand, I can see why I maybe should've folded; there's not much I'm beating after the flop given that he called my re-rasise preflop. I could only really beat AJ or AX suited. 66 or AK would beat me. But could you lay it down?!