crimethink_

The example of calling off all your chips with 55 when the SB pushes into you on the first hand and shows QJo illustrates the concept that you should take any edge you can find early in a NLHE tournament.

Yes, of course you're right, I don't know why I didn't see it before...all theory is completely worthless. Who cares if hypothetical situations help one understand the concepts needed to succeed in a NLHE tournament, they're ****ing worthless.Again,

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It doesn't matter that it would never happen, it illustrates that you need to take any edge you can get in a tournament. That's good tournament theory.

What the hell are you arguing for, then, anyway? Obviously this is not going to happen in real life, it's a theory question that helps explain certain concepts in NLHE tournaments. Are you now saying that you agree that you should take any edge you can find?

Lmao...

Okay, but that's a leak in your game. Whether you want to admit it or not.Edit: And seriously, are you ****ing kidding me? You would take QQ against AK but not 55 against 44?

I'm not saying you should call off all your chips with 55 against anything, I'm saying you should call off all your chips with 55 against a hand you have beat enough for calling to be +$EV.

So 56% is enough of an edge, but 51% is not...why is that? What math did you use to come to that conclusion? And why is it that Greg Raymer and Paul Phillips will take any edge early on but you won't?

The was to your statement that you wouldn't do it now, but maybe after you had played the ME a few times, which doesn't make any sense.

They wouldn't.

Here's how you go deep in MTTs: you take every edge you can get, and you accumulate a lot of chips.

Wow. So you're saying that if you played a great deal of these events, this would be a call, but because this is a once-a-year event, you would fold...if you don't understand why that's wrong, then I guess I'm just beating my head against a wall arguing with you.

Yes.

Really, you should read the article. Then maybe you can explain to me where the flaw in his argument is, because I don't see one. And the reason you need to call his push now is because doing so makes you money in the long run. And more often than not you will make it to the 4th level when you make this call. Furthermore, you will make it to the 4th level with twice as many chips as you would have had you folded.

Unless the raiser shows you a hand you have beat, in which case you should call. Of course, that's assuming you don't have some strange aversion to money.

Look, I'm well aware that it's much better to be pushing than calling, but if you know you're ahead then you need to make the call, unless the payout structure dictates a fold. And you could, you know, read the article. You might learn something.

lmaoI guess I just enjoy making the correct play...care to explain what edge you would want in that situation, and why? Also, if you could explain why Matros is wrong here, that would be great. Because I'm always looking to learn, you know.

Not very likely to happen , but yes.

You should be calling basically anytime doing so would be +$EV, which will vary based on the payout structure of the tourney.

Just in case anyone finds this interesting or enlightening:"if you knowingly pass up a 60:40 opportunity, you're not a top player." -Greg Raymer"I've said I'll take ANY edge (or even ANY COIN FLIP) early, and that NOBODY is good enough to intentionally refuse a 60/40 edge early. Repeatedly applying a 60/40 edge would make you one of the top players intournament poker." -Paul PhillipsFrom this thread.

Well, logically, there must be an answer...for you personally, on the first hand of the main event of the WSOP, at a table with no one you know, folded to the SB who pushes all in, what kind of edge would you want in order to call there, and why?

I already know what the number is...I'll take any edge I can find. I was just wondering, if a 60-40 edge isn't good enough for you at a table of random players, what is?

And why, exactly, is a 60-40 edge insufficient? What edge is sufficient, and why?Edit: Also, both Paul Phillips and Greg Raymer have said that they will take small edges for all of their chips early in the tournament, are they just bad poker players?