[One Of Those "great" Kk Situations...]

As an aside, if villain1 exclusively has AA, do we like his line? This looks like an attempt to iso the button, do we really want to do that with someone stuck in the middle?Can anyone make a case for flatting AA in villain1 spot in hopes of checkraising the button on the flop?

Results: I thought for a few moments after the 4 bet. It felt like aces, but there was no way I was folding kings, and like we talked about, no likely flop was going to change the fact I was getting it in at some point, so I shoved hoping to keep AK involved. Villain 2 thought about it for a few seconds before kicking it in. Villain 1 then took about 5-10 seconds, and called. I felt really good at that point, because AA would have snapped. Flop came down with an ace, and suddenly I didn't feel so good. Turn and River were blanks. Villain 1 showed up with AA for trips.

[One Of Those "great" Kk Situations...]

My theory is that it's CROWDED with multi-tabling, data-mining, poker-tracking nut-peddlers who have moved up from lower limits and have a $x,xxx bankroll and they don't want to piss it away giving action by playing anything less than the nuts.

I've noticed this too, and that was one of the reasons I was so apprehensive about getting it in here so early. It seems the only time I've seen competent players getting this many big blinds in the middle is when they have the stone cold nuts. I've noticed two types of players at the 50NL tables: Type A: The multi tabling, data mining, only playing the nuts crowd you mentioned earlier. They are either up two buy ins, or are sitting at the max starting amount because they reload after every hand that they lose a BB. Type B: Buy in for 10, fold anything less than a pocket pair or AK. Limp. Smooth call ANY 3 bet. Fold any flop you don't absolutely stomp, and shove immediately when you make a big hand. 4 times out of 5 they are folding to a continuation bet. If they show any resistance at all, they turned their 33 into a set. It's like clockwork.The common denominater between the two is the minraise. I've never been minraised more times in my life. Well, actually, the minraise for a Type A isn't really a minraise per say. Player B will make the definition minraise from 4 to 8. Type B will raise from 4 to 9... You get minraised at 50NL, run for the hills unless you've got the goods. Like you said, its easy to identify the players at this level, its just difficult to make money. Not a lot of fish.

[One Of Those "great" Kk Situations...]

In your spot, I would just call.More often than not, I see the big raiser having AK online. I like having the opportunity to fold if an Ace hits the flop.Ten high flop, I will re-raise any bet, or bet the pot if it is checked to me. Ace on the flop, I fold. J or Q I will be put to a decision on whether or not the big raiser hit his set.

If that is the case, aren't you losing a ton of value here and not really gaining anything? If the AK whiffs(which it will most times when you hold two of the 6 outs) then cool, you won a 25 buck pot because you're probably not getting a cent more. Therefore you have to take in account the value(80 bucks) you lost by not getting him in pre, right? Also, its not as if you are saving money in this situation if he has AA, which is one of the 4 hands I narrowed his range to once he 4 bet. In that case, if an ace doesn't hit, you are still going broke. Does the money saved in the rare case the ace does hit outweigh the money lost by not getting inferior hands all in pre? Like Krup said though, this guy was a very solid TAG, had a narrow range when he 4 bet, which would become even narrower if he called my shove. What am I being called by that I beat on a shove? ak or qq HOPEFULLY? More likely AA or KK which stack me, and chop me respectively. Not to mention, there is the issue with the smooth caller who could be slow playing me with a monster as well. Does his involvement make it any less likely that I'm beaten?I still don't see how I get away from shoving here, but I hate it just the same. Anybody else just calling?

[One Of Those "great" Kk Situations...]

Hey guys. Been a member of FCP since the beginning and have been reading all you guys for a while. Never posted though because I was always nervous the advice I'd be giving was poor and would accidently steer somebody in the wrong direction. Also, I never played online, so I felt as if my advice would be missing a key element. However, I just just starting playing online a few months ago, and could use some help in few situations. Hopefully with a little more experience(and winning) I'll feel comfortable commenting on other peoples hands with my thought process. Until then though, anything you guys can offer would be greatly appreciated.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comCO ($19.50)Hero (Button) ($99.80)Villain2 (SB) ($77.75)BB ($57.40)Villain1 (UTG) ($101.50)MP1 ($47.15)MP2 ($39)Preflop: Hero is Button with K, KVillain1 bets $2, 3 folds, Hero raises to $6.50, Villain2 calls $6.50, 1 fold, Villain1 raises to $19, Hero?I don't have any tracker software, but I had identified Villain 1 as a very solid TAG. Villain 2 is a little more difficult to comment on. He seems to be fairly competent, but on my 3rd hand at the table I put a bad beat on him for his whole stack. Since then, he's played pretty straightforward except when I'm involved in a pot. I'm definitely in his head. Every time I'm in the pot and the action comes to him, he takes double the amount of time he normally does making a decision to play or not, and seems to get involved in more pots than normal with the intention of trying out play me post flop. That being said, I'm not overly concerned about him, even though its a decent size raise to call OOP. In the big hand he lost to me he had kings, made a big re-raise pre, and we got it in. He was ahead then, so I would expect him to take that route again. I'm more worried about Villain1, as I haven't seen him get out of line yet. That being said, what line do you guys take with this? Auto shove? With QQ you basically have two options, shove, or call and fold to overs. With KK, do you lose too much value by calling because you're only getting calls post flop from AK when you're beat? Does the fact we're 200 BB's deep change anything? That's the main issue I'm having with this. With 30 left, theres no question what I'm doing, but what about 95? I thought about 5 betting to 60, but am I really folding here to a shove from either player? Maybe if villain 2 comes out of nowhere and shoves? Is there any scenario that would lead you guys to folding this hand, or is this just one of those deals where you get it in regardless and live with the results?