CaseAce
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Posts posted by CaseAce
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"he had check folded on similar boards to me OTF, so he's probably expecting me to bet."Does this qualify? Is villain capable of such a play? From your comments about being a decent tag, I'd say he probably is. I've been trying to find a shove here, but I just don't think I have enough to condone it. I can't shake the feeling you're getting steamrolled though. I think this is one of the times you just have to let yourself be bluffedWith some read (ie, hes lead the flop after 3betting with overpairs before) I would put him in here. Very marginal though. I fold most of the time in this spot. -
Yea, a little pot control in this particular situation wouldn't have been bad either.Now that you mention it, I think you're right - a check flop + call blank turn + fold to pressure on the river is the way to go. This way we do have the added, albeit slight, bonus of spiking the ten on both the turn AND river. Villain's mistake was in giving me the potential to grab two cheap cards (avg of $3 per street). Missed the chance to draw out on qq. -
I don't hate the lead. When dealing with passive villains who tend to check fold most flops they don't stomp, I c-bet/lead 100% of the time no matter what I have until I'm stopped. This also works well when dealing with the question on another thread about donk betting. By doing this so often, I am setting myself up perfectly to maximize value when I do lead/c-bet with the nuts.It just didn't feel right because when I DID bet, I said to myself, "you know you're doing this for INFORMATION," and poker gospel says to never bet or raise for information. -
"It's funny cause it's true." - BiffThough you probably wouldnt have got max value if that 3 hadnt hit. Villain probably thought he hit gin LOL -
Agreed. Also, I don't see why people keep saying they are cringing about 88 here as they call. While I haven't played much .10/.25, I can tell you for a fact that 88 is very rarely(if at all) raising in this spot .25/.50, and if they did, it would be bigger than 2.5x. Most of the time they would be absolutely content to see this flop for .85 and hope to flop a set. I'm pretty sure the same would apply here. Even though this is a non issue since we all agree we're calling here, if I'm holding my breath about any possible villain hand while I'm fist pumping, its AA/KK, despite holding one of each.Pre-Flop: K:heart: A:spade: dealt to Hero (UTG)Hero raises to $0.85, 4 folds, CO calls $0.85, BTN raises to $1.95, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.10, CO calls $1.1After the blinds (.35) Hero's raise (.85) and CO call (.85) there is 2.05 in the pot so I disagree that it's a hefty raise...Snap, fist-pump -
In retrospect, a little pot control probably would have been the play with the possible range the villain had. I forgot to post the results before, so for what its worth, the villain had 96 of spades, which wasn't all that surprising for the .25/.50 game. The only hands I ever see get played there like that are the nuts, unless its some Friday night hero(or as I was beginning to call them, unicorns)I moved up to .50/1 last week despite my results in .25/50 the last 4 months only being a small profit, because the game itself was driving me nuts. I didn't think the style of play would change that drastically, as I heard from many people that the change didn't come until 1/2, but I figured even a slight improvement might give me a little sanity. Well, I'm glad I did. While you still have a few graduates of the .25/.50 nit academy lurking, I've found that at almost every table, theres at least 2 people DYING to give their money away. I've been given more money just this weekend than in my 12K+ .25/.50 hands combined. While its still not the normal, aggressive play I'm use to, its definitely a start, and its definitely a more profitable game.Err - i'm saying to check the turn instead of betting 10 -
mtdesmoines and Sens-Eh are both right. A bigger re-raise pre almost guarantees you get it all in either before the flop or after on a queen(or less) high board. However, theres absolutely no reason this guy should be folding kings in this spot, despite being right. I hope you looked at him like he was nuts and told him he was good as you mucked.
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That sentence made me lol. Talk about intimidation...I've only encountered 1 player who counted out that many chips in 10 stacks in the last year or so, and he was exactly the same type of loose/passive/station you described in the OP. The sick thing is, I remember watching him play a hand similar to this. Folded to him in the SB and he completed. I don't remember the exact board, but it was something dry like Q72o. He then proceeded to check call 3 straight bets from the big blind and turned over AA which ended up losing to a rivered two pair. I don't know if its that hand thats swaying my judgement because I usually feel pretty good when I see somebody counting out their chips prematurely, but I feel like he's probably big, maybe even slow played aces. That being said, like Bears, I think I'm shoving still. I feel pretty strongly that villain 2 is on a draw, and while I have a sneaking suspicion Villain 1 is slow playing something decent, theres just as good a chance if not better that he's on a combo draw as well and we're ahead.Meanwhile, Villain 1 counted out the rest of his chips in $10 stacks, finding $85 left. -
Ha, thanks. I try.As far as the hand goes, what line would you have taken on the turn? I felt there was value to be had from overpairs and two pair hands, but the problem(which you're probably going to point out) was that I didn't really have a plan in the event he shoved. I agree with your assessment that this a WB situation far more than a WA. C/F is to passive and I'm not a huge fan of a C/C either as he would probably bet with both hands I beat and hands that have me crushed, and then I'd be in the same situation on the river barring the case 3. Bet/fold?Hey noob, "if this situation came up there, I would have hellmuth'd my chips into the middle so fast they may have elevated off the felt and hit the villain in the face."This was funny and original as far as I could tell. NH.As for your post, we have to find a fold. I don't think you knew it was a bad card for you (and it may not have changed anything) on the turn until the action went down. Never WA, much to often WB to call here imo. -
No reads on villain as he had just sat a few hands before. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comVillain 1 (Button) ($50)SB ($50)Villain 2 (BB) ($34.90)UTG ($39.50)UTG+1 ($50.75)MP1 ($10)MP2 ($21.80)MP3 ($8.35)Hero (CO) ($143.25)Preflop: Hero is CO with 3
, 3
5 folds, Hero bets $1.50, Villain 1 calls $1.50, 1 fold, Villain 2 calls $1Flop: ($4.75) 5, 7, 4
(3 players)Villain 2 checks, Hero bets $4, Villain 1 calls $4, 1 foldTurn: ($12.75) 3
(2 players)Hero bets $10, Villain 1 raises to $44.50 (All-In)Total pot: $32.75Worst card I could have seen? Villain went into the time bank before shoving. Normally at this level I've found a move like this is almost always a big hand, and since he was on the button, I wouldn’t put a whole lot past him (44,55,66,77,46s,56s,76s,86s,96s,A2 ect.) Feels a lot like a value shove especially after the flat on the flop, although I feel like this could easily be a lot of hands I beat as well (88,99,TT,45,47,57 or some type of flush draw) This is where I think live poker gets me in trouble. I was down at Foxwoods this weekend, and after two extremely profitable sessions, if this situation came up there, I would have hellmuth'd my chips into the middle so fast they may have elevated off the felt and hit the villain in the face. Crying call here or am throwing money away? -
Agreed. I'm fine with the raise pre, but not so thrilled with the size of the lead. I'm not too worried about MP here if you flat the shove. I don't think he would smooth call what appears to be a continuation bet on flop with a set when theres 4 players left to act and a club draw on the board. He comes over the top after you flat the all in, and I think I can get away here as well.I don't think your preflop raise size was too small...you aren't going to be raising with aces every time, and you can't put in $15-20 every time you open the betting just because here or there you might get 4 callers. Such is live cash game play.Your lead was too small...I probably bet $45. You want draws to pay..instead they're getting almost 3:1 on their call of your bet. Call the shove; you're ahead of anything reasonable for BB to have but a set. Sucks you got checkraised because we're seeing sets and combo draws more often than if he just shoved behind, but it is what it is. If MP reshoves I can get away. -
Oops, should probably start proofreading posts before clicking submit.No. KK>QT on a QT522 board... -
That was my thought too. If I'm almost sure he has a 10, I don't think many 1/2 players would be able to fold in this spot, so there would be value in shoving. Honestly, all the ideas posted so far would probably work in this situation at this level. If I had to do it over again, I think I would have used the crazy donk persona to my advantage, announced I was all in, and stared the guy down so he would think I was trying to run him over.If you do think there's a decent chance he has the T though, he's probably never folding it and you can just shove. -
I was playing 1/2 down at Mohegan over the weekend, and a hand came up that I wanted to get an opinion on. I’ve been at the table for about an hour. To this point, I haven’t seen the villain get out of line, but he did make a comment to someone else at the table about how he doesn’t play online poker because he doesn’t like to be cheated. Also, this table is extremely loose passive. I think theres been 5 pots raised preflop since I sat down, and 4 of them were by me. My image at the table is probably a maniac, because a revolution before I raised 3 limpers with 45 suited in position, then showed the hand down after a Q44J6 board. UTG+1 ($150)Villain 1 (MP1) ($275)Villain 2 (MP2) ($140)CO ($600)Hero (Button) ($360)SB ($200)BB ($350)UTG ($70)Preflop: Hero is Button with K
, 101 fold, UTG+1 calls $2, Villain 1 calls $2, Villain 2 calls $2, CO calls $2, Hero calls $2, 1 fold, BB checksFlop: ($13) J, 9, 8(6 players)BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Villain 1 checks, Villain 2 checks, CO checks, Hero bets $10, 2 folds, Villain 1 calls $10, Villain 2 calls $10, 1 foldTurn: ($43) Q(3 players)Villain 1 checks, Villain 2 checks, Hero bets $25, Villain 1 calls $25, 1 foldRiver: ($93) 4(2 players)Villain 1 checks, Hero bets $65Other than upping my turn and river bets by 10, what do you guys think?At this point, I have the villains range narrowed down almost exclusively to a 10. When I have seen villains past winning hands, he’s protected them against straight draws and flushes, unless he’s been on the draw himself. I am almost positive he would have raised the flop if he held AJ, two pair or a set.My question is, if I’ve put villain on a 10 here, can I get value from a shove? What about a good size overbet like 130? At the time, the thought never crossed my mind, because I hadn’t thought the villains range through well enough(I was too worried about folding out 2 pairs and sets at the time) but would it have been a profitable play to shove? I had a pretty wild image, and theres a good chance this guy may think I’m just some idiot doing this with a 10, and feel obligated to call it down. Also, I wouldn’t discount the possibility this guy would think I’m trying to bowl him over with like AJ or QJ.On paper, it seems like a stupid idea since the pots only 93 bucks, but in retrospect, I feel like I left money out on the table. Thoughts? -
Can we get a result?
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Yup. Because next time that spot rolls around, you will have bet pre and may have been able to get away from it with the extra information. Or if you limped and are still there in the end, you will either be folding a missed draw this time with 112 left or stacking him with QT... It was terrible play all the way through with KK, and his money will be changing hands shortly.I called, he flipped over KK and fist pumped. BB didn't show.Am I supposed to just say to myself "That's nice, he slowplays KK from the button 6 handed" and reload? Stuff like that seriously tilts me. Just life at 1/2? -
Also, the line seems to fit KT until the smooth call of your turn re-reraise. Flats pre, check calls OESD on flop, min raises turn with the nuts.
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This actually makes me think that he has KT himself. He's trying to take KT out of the range you are putting him on, and trying to make you feel safe betting your set/two pair. As weird as that seems, I've seen this at the live 1/2 tables on more than a few occasions. Typically, the player who calls out a potential big hand like this either has it destroyed already, or holds that hand. Since there are no hands that beat KT currently, makes me think he has KT. As mentioned in previous posts, I hate the bet sizes all the way through. I bet 30-35 on the flop, 70-75 on the turn. As played after his borderline minraise on the turn, I'm popping 200.As played on the river, I check behind. We're beaten by too much now, and there isn't much value in betting, as he is only calling with better.The thing that gets me is villain has called our hand, I think this is pretty important. He's done in it such a resigned way that it looks like a set or 2pr that can't fold even though he knows he's behind. Like "whatever, I know you have a straight but I have QQ and there's nothing I can do about it" -
I agree completely. Villains range tightened up dramatically once he called the 4 bet. AA KK could definitely play this hand that way, but I'm more inclined to think they would have shoved pre as LJB said, and this was a scared TT,JJ,QQ or AK, all of which stomped the flop. Without a better read, as played, I fold. I thought about a c-bet/fold, but I think I play it the same. I just don't see much value in putting a c-bet out there, as the majority of villains range is coming over the top regardless(including potential hands you are ahead of) and we would be in the same spot as we are in now, just a c-bet lighter.Almost every hand that villain could call a 4 bet with preflop has you crushed on this flop. You are drawing nearly dead if villain has TT, JJ, QQ, or AK. KK has decent equity against you and villain could have the other 2 Aces as well. -
If he's competent he's not going to open limp on the button...If villain is competent though, a set is definitely in his range.
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Not in 50NL on stars for some reason. That seems to be a staple move. If villain is competent though, a set is definitely in his range.This seems really wrong to me.... -
I agree, hero's hand appears very transparent, but if we are noticing this, is it possible the villain did as well and is trying to represent an ace with a hand like JJ or QQ because of hero’s perceived weakness? Under that type of duress, the fact people are shoving with AQ pre at this table, and no read on villain, I'm folding as played, but I would not be surprised to hear that the villain showed up with jacks either.your hand looks exactly like what it is, and it def looks like you're coming along for the ride anyway. don't get value-owned. -
I'm probably not the right person to ask, because I'm only up 2 buy ins after about 70 hours of play, but I'm starting to adjust. Every game is beatable, it just seems like this one may take a while, because you have to exercise so much patience. It seems as if the only hands I'm ever involved with that have big pots are coolers either in my favor or against. It's very rare I see somebody get nailed on a semi bluff. Well, besides myself of course haha... It's usually big hand vs bigger hand.My guess would be the people who have made a large profit in the game multi table, sit back and wait for monsters. Their bankroll won't grow as quickly, but the money will eventually accrue over time when people inevitably pay them off. There is a guy on another thread who mentioned that he kills 50NL for a 750 dollar a month profit, and I would be very interested to see what strategy he employs.thanks for both of those, very good analysis, i haven't played much online for a while but i wish i had known that a few years back when i did, i was crushing the $25 nl game, but everytime i got up to the $50 it seemed i got run over by sets and nut flushes all the time, now i know whyso how would you beat this game?limp constantly to avoid rasing with say AK and hitting TPTK and being way behind a set of 3's? -
It may be different on FT, but on stars, this is almost ALWAYS a big hand. I just don't see a lot of extended bluffing on Stars in 50NL. You showed some strength by calling from the SB and then check raising, and he is still pushing. I'm alright up until the C/R like SCS, but as he said, you aren't getting value from worse hands and villain isn't folding better. The minute he shoved, its an easy dump. I can see anything from 46 to TT+ showing up here. I guess it could be a set, but 95% of the time on stars, a small pair will be limping from the button looking to mine against the unsuspecting blinds. Either way, you're beat.
Another Guess The Hand (fr) (5/10)
in No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
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