two various hands i'd like ripped apart permitting

[iggymcfly 0]

I wasn't trying to represent the fact that you are even a 20% favorite against multiple hands. I was trying to point out that even against the best possible starting hand for your oposition.......6/1 odds could still warrent a limp. I am not saying that it is a play I would want to make.If I am wrong with something I say, tell me why. People are quick to insult around here......

What exactly were you trying to represent then? The odds a hand has against another hand heads-up aren't exactly relevant when discussing a hand where six people see the flop.

[belatropic 0]

Well, the last post was the worst interpretation of odds I've ever seen. Sure, if you were in for $2 in the big blind, and someone goes all-in for $3, you have odds to call with any two cards at 5:1.However, going against the whole field, your odds are much lower and may be as low as 10:1 or 20:1. You can't just say you have the right odds to play against five hands because you have the odds to play against one hand.Now with that being said, you're not necessarily wrong that you can play a mediocre hand like Q-8 on the button in this situation. This play works fine if you think you can outplay your opponents postflop.In this hand, however you did no such thing. By cold-calling and then re-raising a check-raiser, you're killing your action against any hand you have beat, and then making sure you lose your whole stack if you're up against a set. I think that even a hand like KK would have a hard time calling you down after all the strength you've represented.You have position in this hand, so use it. Tinygrump has shown a lot of strength this far, and is willing to bet the hand so let him. Just call the bet on the flop, and reevaluate on the turn. If he comes out strong again when the ace hits, then he obviously doesn't have KK or KQ, and you can give yourself a chance to let the hand go.At the very least, by slowing things down, you'll make sure to get paid off by AQ the 90% of the time the ace doesn't hit, and if your opponent shows any passivity on the scare card (scary for his opponents, not for him), then you might save part of your stack.Honestly, though, if you that reraising that hand is the best move on the flop, then you have no business playing any marginal hands whatsoever. If you don't have an edge preflop, then don't play because after the flop, you'll just be giving value to your opponents.

Well written & great input, Iggy. No doubt my excitement after the flop allowed no exit from this hand. As I stated earlier, the initial raiser (AQ) who folded on the re-raise also had me beat after the Ace came on the turn. Just a sad play all around. That was followed up by my AA "Crushed" by A4 s (also posted in this forum) for a quick $400 loss. http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forums/v...pic.php?t=42378That is why I had my tail between my legs & threw the stuff out for you guys/girls.I know people say things they later regret, so let me say Fopkins did respond to my other posts in a knowledgeable way. The “read a book” line dug in a bit because I read everything I can find.......guess it takes a while to sink in. I deviate too much from tourney play when I play my side games & guess I am learning you can’t.A bit o/t, here is what I’ve read (& read etc...)The Best Harrington on Hold’em 1 & 2Tournament Poker for advanced players (LOL) SklanskyAce on the River Barry Greenstein (Just a fun book to read)GoodHold’em Poker for advanced players Sklansky/MalmuthChampionship No-limit/Pot-limit Cloutier/McEVOYHold’em Poker Sklansky& Doyles Super System 1 & 2 under my tree (I think)Thanks again everybody...let this thread die.Bela

[gates1026 0]

However, going against the whole field, your odds are much lower and may be as low as 10:1 or 20:1. You can't just say you have the right odds to play against five hands because you have the odds to play against one hand.

All I was trying to say is that you are getting a great price for your minimum investment. Are you trying to say that you would need 10/1 or even 20/1 on your money before taking a flop like this?You are right in the fact that showing what odds you are getting against a single hand are not relevant in determining what odds you need to call against 5 hands. I was merely trying to show that even against the best possible starting hand you are only a 4/1 dog.