doh....

[FYB 0]

rgh... It took me a long time to make that call...and all for nothing or almost nothing.***** Hand History for Game 1512132508 *****30/60 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 9107984) - Sat Jan 29 21:17:34 EST 2005Table Table 11063 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the buttonTotal number of players : 9Seat 1: blujeangirl (1175)Seat 2: lasqueen (355)Seat 3: sonny2603 (910)Seat 4: Leebo1938 (1305)Seat 5: rbeckwith (870)Seat 6: Skillz333 (1075)Seat 7: chiles101 (490)Seat 9: AeromanHigh (635)Seat 10: fyb2000 (1185)AeromanHigh posts small blind (15)fyb2000 posts big blind (30)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to fyb2000 [ Js, Jh ] blujeangirl folds.lasqueen folds.sonny2603 folds.Leebo1938 folds.rbeckwith folds.Skillz333 calls (30)chiles101 folds.AeromanHigh calls (15)fyb2000 checks.** Dealing Flop ** : [ Jc, Kc, 2c ] AeromanHigh checks.fyb2000 checks.chiles101: lol knew it was a bad bet after i made itSkillz333 bets (1045)Skillz333 is all-In.AeromanHigh folds.chiles101: u had a 8 leebo?fyb2000: dudefyb2000: i got a setfyb2000: hard to not callAeromanHigh: play emchiles101: call fooliofyb2000 calls (1045)** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4c ] ** Dealing River ** : [ Qc ] Creating Main Pot with $2180 with Skillz333** Summary **Main Pot: 2180 | Board: [ Jc Kc 2c 4c Qc ]blujeangirl balance 1175, didn't bet (folded)lasqueen balance 355, didn't bet (folded)sonny2603 balance 910, didn't bet (folded)Leebo1938 balance 1305, didn't bet (folded)rbeckwith balance 870, didn't bet (folded)Skillz333 balance 1090, bet 1075, collected 1090, net +15 [ Qd Kh ] [ a flush, king high -- Kc,Qc,Jc,4c,2c ]chiles101 balance 490, didn't bet (folded)AeromanHigh balance 605, lost 30 (folded) fyb2000 balance 1200, bet 1075, collected 1090, net +15 [ Js Jh ] [ a flush, king high -- Kc,Qc,Jc,4c,2c ]

[Jubba 0]

like winning $0.03 in the lottery... hate it when that happens.any particular reason you didn't raise w/ JJ in the BB?

[CaptDrew 0]

I have to agree with Jubba on this one. You probably should have raised out of the big blind. With the disclaimer that it's only one man's opinion, here's why:The action folded around to the cutoff, who called. Now he could be slow playing a high pair, but most likely he's not - the action folded around to him, after all. I believe you should try an find out where he stands before the flop. Raise. Make it 120 to go. This serves two purposes. One, it makes him make a decision. If he doesn't have a high pair, he's probably not going to gamble all-in early in the tournament. If it's early in the tournament and players are still getting a feel for one another, a good sized raise from the big blind is a scary prospect. That leads us to the second reason the raise is good. If he calls, and the flop comes, he will give you respect. His KQ doesn't seem so hot now that you could have AK or KK (which is a real posibility with the BB raise). I'm almost certain he wouldn't go all-in with top pair now. You could have him kicker creamed. That would have given you the opportunity again to make him make the decision. And that is what NL hold'em is all about - communication. You want to be in the position of asking your opponent to decide if he wants to risk all of his chips. I think you missed the boat a couple of times with this hand and that cost you the whole pot. As always if anyone thinks I'm way off base, please explain... don't flame. That's how we'll all get better.-CaptDrew

[FYB 0]

It was still early in the tournament and against only one taker i didn't wanted to see the flop for cheap as that guy had been quite tight before (accross only maybe 20 hands...). Anyway, I was going to approach it as a 'no set no bet' unless the flop came rags (smaller than my Js). Obviously the flop was a mixed bag. I got my set, but a possible flush was there, with 2 cards to come. I didn't put him on a 'made flush' on the flop, as nobody fast play those with an all-in. If he had the nut flush, he would have put a small bet hoping to get me in for more chips, and with a smaller flush he would have put a value/information bet. Now on a draw, I have seen that move over and over, especially with people holding the A. But it still didn't sound right, as the pot was so small compare to the bet. It just felt as a (stupid) 'go away' bet. So I went for it, eventhough I would have feel better if I had a club in my hand (not possible else I would not have had my set). I was hoping to see the board paired either on the turn or the river, and more important, not to see another club out there. Well i saw 2 (quite a long shot) and was 'happy'/relieved that he didn't show me say the 3 of club...FYB

[CaptDrew 0]

I'm sorry to say this, but I think that your tactic was a very weak way to play NL hold'em. You were violating one of the most important concepts of NL play - make your opponents make the decision for all their money. Re-read your last post. At no time did you explain how you had control of the hand. You were putting the onus on yourself. Remember, tight aggression - control and communication... very important ideas in NL play. Analyze that hand again, come up with different avenues to winning the pot. Keep in mind that you want to excert control over your opponent, when you can.Just my opinion. Open to other ideas, though.-CaptDrew

[FYB 0]

Capt Drew,I agree with the way you are looking at it, and I actually raise with that hand from the BB about 75% of the time. In that case, i didn't because I only saw that guy go in a pot once before, with Ks and getting cracked by an A3. He played it the same pre-flop, limping in, checking till the river and calling a ~180 chips bet at the river. Raising from the BB would not have give me a lot more information without seeing the texture of the flop. If he calls, well, he calls and I will have to fish for more info post flop EVEN if I don't hit my set. If he folds I get 75 chips back in my stack, with a hand that has some great potential (as well as some huge risk). I felt that 'gambling' to win 200+ chips post-flop vs loosing 30 was a good enough proposition and that is why i didn't raise pre-flop.But once again, more often than not I would raise in this situation (especially vs more than one hand).FYB

[CaptDrew 0]

First, this is a good exchange... I like it.Now, this is tournament play, right? It's early. Your primary objective is to build your stack. If it's 75 chips at time, so be it. But, you still want to build your stack - without having to risk all your chips. And honestly, playing that hand the way you did, your call was a gamble.

Raising from the BB would not have give me a lot more information without seeing the texture of the flop. If he calls, well, he calls and I will have to fish for more info post flop EVEN if I don't hit my set.

Yes, but at least you have established with him that you are representing a good hand. He's going to slow down, and I'm almost certain he wouldn't have risked all his chips on top pair. You are in a better position to take the pot from him even if you don't hit your set. Example:You raise pre flop, he calls. The flop comes like it did, bet out 150-220 (1/2 to 2/3 the pot). That bet is going to probably scare the hell out of him. He is going to have decide if he still wants to be in the pot. If he wants to raise his only recourse is to go all-in, else he shows weakness. But here's the important point.... he's on the decision. You could easily have the A of clubs. If he plays back at you by going all-in at least you have more information with which to make your decision. Honestly, though, the way he played this hand and the way you explained his play of the only other hand you saw, I think he lays it down.Anyway, there's a lot more that goes into how to play a particular hand in NL, so I'm not saying this is necessarily the best way to play it. But I think there are many better ways to play JJ in the BB early in the tournament.Take care,-CaptDrew