SlackerInc, on Thursday, January 15th, 2009, 10:18 PM, said:
I agree wholeheartedly with your second sentence there. The first one, though...isn't 99 one of those hands that does well iso against one player but declines rapidly in value in a multiway pot? I saw a chart laying out how hand rankings change depending on how many players see the flop, and I thought that was the case.And isn't part of what you are talking about in the second sentence a good reason to limp rather than raise? If you flop the set, players who play poorly postflop can be felted almost as easily starting with a teeny limp pot as they can with a much bigger raised pot, as they just don't process the concept of "big hand, big pot; small hand, small pot". So with this in mind, and after recently reading Daniel Negreanu's and Gus Hansen's recent books, I find myself swayed by the idea of seeing flops cheaply and then exploiting poor postflop play, keeping pots manageably small if my hand remains just a medium strength one, while ballooning the pot when I connect very strongly with the flop and have a hand I want to play for a big pot.But again, you obviously have the credentials, so I'm very open to being educated as to why this analysis is wrong.
You aren't raising to fold them out, you're raising for value. If they want to fold fine, take the 3.5 bbs. If they want to call and play a raised pot out of position with the worst hand, even better. You really can't pass up edges in online donkaments, unless they are extremely small. DN and Gus are talking about big buyin events with deeper stacks and longer levels. Gus also likes to shove k7 off from mid for like 25bbs and do other random shit, so his guidelines are kind of day to day and sometimes without reasoning or math to back it up.You ARE exploiting poor play by making them put in 100 and play oop with an inferior hand. If you raise to 100 and both limpers call you, and c/f the flop you're picking up 230 chips which is like 8% of your stack or something like that. Yea, it;d be nice to flop sets in limped pots and get all the money in but unfortunately it's pretty rare. You are going to profit 200 chips like 75% of the time if you raise, they both call, and you c-bet. If you limp in and set mine, you're only flopping a set 1 out of every 7.5 times and how often is someone going to stack off? Very rarely. Those 6.5 times you miss and go into check call mode are missed opportunities. Let's say they both call pre (which prob happens in a $5) and you profit, on average, 75 chips. 75*6.5 = 487.5 chips you've thrown away by limping. You simply aren't going to get someone to stack off or lose a lot of chips enough in a limped pot to pass on that kind of edge. Also, another point about playing a limped pot vs a raised pot is: in a limped pot since its only 20 on the flop it's usually hard to get your bet sizing to get people to stack off , but much easier when you flop a set in a raised pot. If the pots 330 after they both call your raise, you can get your stack in pretty easily on the river, if you use correct bet sizing which is easier with position. Something like 250, call. Pots 830 now. 700, call. Pots 2030. Now you can jam without it being an overbet.Bottom line is: You're not DN, this isn't the WPT championship. Push your edges whenever you can.