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my first trip to a casino, can't wait for more!


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i'm 18 right now, and i live in buffalo, new york. i go to school in boston, massachusetts, but the only casino around there is foxwoods in connecticut, which is unfortunately 21. so, i've been wanting to go to a casino for a long time, and i finally did.there's only one 18+ casino around here (besides turning stone in syracuse, new york which is quite a drive away), and it's a small, dinky (ghetto) little "gaming center" (read: one room dedicated to slots only, one room dedicated to bingo only, and one small poker room with only nine tables) on an indian reservation.so i took the 50-minute drive there with a friend (whose trip was also the first time to a casino), and we agreed to split the action so that we could both have a good time and not be bummed out if one of us went bust on our first casino trip. i had heard that this place was small and that they usually only had one $1/2 blinds NL HE table going, but i had no idea just how crappy it was!i had called that before on the phone, and i had asked if they ever spread any $2/4 limit or higher; i would much rather prefer playing limit at a casino than no limit. i was told, though, that there is rarely interest for limit, but they'll start up a table if there's interest. i asked what they usually have going, and they said, "well, there's usually just one table of $1/2 NL going." it was the classic case of "we only know the one game, but it's okay, since it's the cadillac of poker."when we got there, i also found out just how ridiculous the rake was: $3 on every flop (regardless of the pot size), then $1 on the turn for the bad beat jackpot, and $1 again when the pot reached $20. talk about f'ed up! this part really pissed me off, but there wasn't much i could do...so we showed up and waited almost an hour for a table to START (we didn't wait for an empty seat, we waited for the first table to start). after an hour, my friend and i made an agreement with two other guys who were waiting to just start four-handed $1/2 NL HE. unfortuntely, the rake was an issue, so i asked the floorperson if he would agree to lower the rake for the four-handed game, and he did (to $1 on the flop instead of $3).so we played a little four-handed, then more people started coming in, and the game became a full ring game (which unfortunately meant the original ridiculous rake). it was a lot of fun, and my god, the players were so terrible. it was a complete mix of exactly young arrogant hotshots and old almost-senile men, and almost everyone was either loose-passive or loose-aggressive or tight-passive.anyway, i played that $1/2 NL HE game for three hours, buying in twice for a total of $110 (first buy-in of $50, second buy-in of $60), and after three hours, i cashed out for around $450 (+$340). i cashed out at that time because i FINALLY got enough people interested in starting a $2/4 limit HE game (apparently, it was the first limit HE game they spread in about six months--so sad) and bought in for $100 at that table.by that time, i was getting tired, and combined with the fact that my friend went broke for $50 at the NL HE table and was ready to go home, i only played an hour of $2/4 limit HE (i learned to never do this again, because they used the SAME f'ing rake structure, basically 1 BB rake EVERY HAND--from now on, i'm only playing $3/6 limit and up, or maybe just $5/10). anyway, in that hour, i just got fairly cold cards and basically saw only one flop. after an hour, i cashed out for about $65 (-$35).so for the entire four-hour session (three hours of $1/2 NL HE and one hour of $2/4 limit HE), i ended around +$305. my friend and i had agreed to split the action, but we did in such a way that we would get money proportional to the amount we risked. since i bought in for a total of $210 and he bought in for a total of $50, he refused to take anymore from me than $60, so i made a profit of around +$245 for the day.overall, it was a lot of fun, even though the place was fairly crappy. it was great getting a taste of the casino aspect, and it was so rewarding to finally play an EASY live game (where every opponent is right out of caro's book, and there is little psychology and difficulty compared to people who know what they're doing, e.g. at MIT). i was told that every friday night, they spread a $4/8 omaha hi/lo game after an omaha tournament, so i'm looking forward to that. hopefully, i can lead a revolution to start up regular interest in limit HE. :club: update:i'd been procrastinating finishing this thread for a while, so in the meantime, i went the friday after this original visit in hopes of playing that $4/8 omaha hi/lo game (i was drooling all week, imagining how juicy it would be). unfortunately, the tournament was cancelled, so there was no interest in the game besides my name and one other name, so the game was never spread.fortunately, i got to see a much livelier aspect of the poker room. my first trip had been on memorial day, so it was very dead, but on a friday night, the place was apparently "jam-packed" with a whopping five tables running (all were NL HE, of which four were $1/2 blinds and one was $5/5 blinds--i had my name on several limit HE interest lists, but those never started, either).i had just bought "getting started in hold 'em" by eddie miller (EXCELLENT book--everyone needs to get it), and in it, he describes a monstrously strong, virtually unexploitable NL HE shortstack strategy (i'll describe the godliness of this section in another thread), so i decided to try it out on my second trip. unfortunately, it's an "ultra-tight" strategy that requires a lot of patience, and with a night of cold cards, i played only three big pots (including a $200 pre-flop pot, having contributed $85 with K-K, against A-A and A-K) and ended the night -$145 in four hours of $1/2 NL HE. my total casino profit so far is then +$100.anyway, i just thought i'd let everyone know about my first (two) trips to a casino. it was a lot of fun, and it's great to finally have this experience under my belt. thanks for reading, and i hope you enjoyed listening.thanks,aseemedit: i wrote an entry in my blog with a few of the important hands i played. you can find them at:http://akishorefcp.blogspot.com/2005/06/ca...sino-day-1.htmlenjoy the read!

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so i took the 50-minute drive there with a friend (whose trip was also the first time to a casino), and we agreed to split the action...
Started bankroll sharing on your first trip to a casino? You sure are a fast learner.
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so i took the 50-minute drive there with a friend (whose trip was also the first time to a casino), and we agreed to split the action...
Started bankroll sharing on your first trip to a casino? You sure are a fast learner.
is this illegal?is it illegal depending on whether we play at the same table or at a different table? it's not like we were colluding or softplaying each other or anything like that, either.this isn't sarcastic--i actually don't know anything about it. i had heard a post before about another person doing it, and just assumed it was a normal thing to do to have fun. it was my friend's first time playing stakes this high for him ($1/2 blinds) and i'm sure he was playing a little scared.i know that he would be way discouraged and not interested in coming back if he had lost his $50 that day; i just figured it's a way to maintain the fun of the visit (as long as you both profit overall, it's good for each of you and reduces variance in both of your bankrolls).let me know, thanks.aseem
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Sounds like you had an excellent time. Live holdem is always a rush, especially compared to online play. Typically I don't much like playing limit holdem in B&Ms. My bankroll can't afford above 6/12 and most games below that are pretty much crapshoots. If you are getting cold cards or your premium hands don't connect it's a real grind, and I'm not driving an hour each way to a casino to make 2bb/100 when I only have about 6 hours to play cards.I love the NL tables, although I can't believe how many kids there are my age (early 20s) who have thousands of dollars to put on the poker table. I can't help but wonder if these guys are just trustfund babies or actual players who've climbed that high. I gotta build my roll a bit more before I can sit down and find out though.

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sushiman,while people obviously make mistakes (that's how you make money), luck has a magnifying effect in NL HE and you often don't see the results even if you played a hand correctly. so, just as you can get cold cards in limit HE and lose a bit of money waiting for hands, you can also just get unlucky in NL HE in the same amount of time and lose a bigger amount of money with all-ins, etc.it's just a matter of personal taste, but i also believe that limit HE is much softer game in the casinos because people just have no idea what they're doing. i thought EVERYONE knew that it's a huge, obvious mistake to have the mindset of "it's only $4 to call, why would i fold?", but--no joke--i heard two kids genuinely talking that way and believing it (they were playing every hand), while they were playing decently (tight and somewhat aggressive) at the NL HE tables since the money mattered to them maybe.limit games tend to be much more passive and much, much, much looser, and as a result, the games can be quite juicy. i don't think games below 6/12 are crapshoots at all (if that were the case, "small stakes hold 'em" would be completely unnecessary), and if you take the time to learn how to beat them, i've heard that you can maintain a 4 BB/100 rate or higher at the live games (as opposed to a 2-3 BB/100 rate online, where the games tend to be considerably tighter). it's not uncommon at all to see regular seven-way and eight-way flops at the limit tables.it's just personal taste, but i think limit HE is oftentimes where it's at. again, just personal taste, though.aseemp.s. yeah, the amount of money some of these kids have is interesting, to say the least. i strongly doubt any of them have earned it by grinding out a bankroll or anything. most likely, it's just their own money from their bank account, and they are almost definitely not following any forms of bankroll management.as an example, last night, there was a kid at my table who bought in for $100. he built it up to $400 over the course of three hours, and his dad walked over to him to talk. just then, they announced that a $5/5 NL table was opening up (minimum $100, maximum $200), and his dad almost forced him to take his winnings and sit down at the higher stakes. it was comical, to say the least.

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is this illegal?
Nope. As long as you're not shuffling chips over to him AT the table then it's fine.My buddy needed a little help recooperating from some "losses" so he banked me to go help him play. He's a NL player and I find myself to be a great Limit player, so he gave me a couple buy-ins to the 6-12 they spread at the local indian reservation out here, and he hit the NL tables, and at the end of the night (....actually it turned out we were playing for 3 days straight, I dunno where the time went :oops: ...) I forked over about $1400 to him, plus his buy-ins back, plus I kept 400 for myself.So no, it's not illegal because it's after you leave the casino, and it's personal business. Other than that great story, glad you enjoyed your first time! w00t!
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Hey, sounds like you had a pretty good time despite the glitches in rakes and general bull. I'd recommend you drive the extra distance for Turning Stone though. I've been there three times, and there's always a good amount of action and variety in games and limits.

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so i took the 50-minute drive there with a friend (whose trip was also the first time to a casino), and we agreed to split the action...
Started bankroll sharing on your first trip to a casino? You sure are a fast learner.
is this illegal?is it illegal depending on whether we play at the same table or at a different table? it's not like we were colluding or softplaying each other or anything like that, either.
As far as I know, it's not illegal. But if you're playing at the same table, some will consider it collusion. The issue has come up a few times in RGP. You can use Google Groups to check there to get a feel of different players' opinions.
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Akishore I totally agree with your statements, and I think I just prefer NL because I don't have the patience for live limit games anymore. I played at AC for a year and spent most of my time at limit before I tried NL. The truth of it is I just don't enjoy sitting hours at a time with a table saturated by senior citizens (some are good, most aren't) whom I can't make conversation with when I could be comfortably sitting at my PC and seeing 3x more hands in my underwear. At least in NL everyone is a lot closer to my age and I get to see a lot more action when I'm mucking hand after hand. Limit is how I started my bankroll but nowadays I figure why grind it out at the casinos when I'm grinding it out already at home. I play NL at casinos because I'm looking for a bit more of the gamble.

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aseem, I will take you to AC. I can get you ID etc.I'll even stake you.

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Hey, sounds like you had a pretty good time despite the glitches in rakes and general bull. I'd recommend you drive the extra distance for Turning Stone though. I've been there three times, and there's always a good amount of action and variety in games and limits.
turning stone sounds great, but i live in buffalo, and syracuse is a little over four hours away. that's quite a drive, and i plan on making it at least once this summer, but it's not a practical possibility for a regular casino.aseem
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so i took the 50-minute drive there with a friend (whose trip was also the first time to a casino), and we agreed to split the action...
Started bankroll sharing on your first trip to a casino? You sure are a fast learner.
is this illegal?is it illegal depending on whether we play at the same table or at a different table? it's not like we were colluding or softplaying each other or anything like that, either.
As far as I know, it's not illegal. But if you're playing at the same table, some will consider it collusion. The issue has come up a few times in RGP. You can use Google Groups to check there to get a feel of different players' opinions.
thanks for the heads-up, i'll check it out.we were playing on the same table for part of the time, but there was no funny business.aseem
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Limit is how I started my bankroll but nowadays I figure why grind it out at the casinos when I'm grinding it out already at home. I play NL at casinos because I'm looking for a bit more of the gamble.
amen. i can definitely relate to that... i was getting quite tired/frustrated waiting for hands in limit but such was not the case in NL.aseem
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weekend trip.the casino experience will not be as profitable as online so you are going for much more than that. you require an immersion experience - this requires a whole weekend.it should help your game. live and online are worlds apart. like parallel universes.

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weekend trip.the casino experience will not be as profitable as online so you are going for much more than that. you require an immersion experience - this requires a whole weekend.it should help your game. live and online are worlds apart. like parallel universes.
i like the idea a lot. :-) what are the lowest stakes (limit HE, NL HE, and limit O8) you can find in AC? what casino would you prefer (borgata, taj, any others)?aseem
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aseem, i think you made two mistakes on your first casino trip. your biggest was leaving a no limit game that you were crushing for $100 an hour, with unlimited possibilities, to play in a 2-4 game that if you were catcthing cards you might be able to win $20 an hour. your other mistake was sharing the bankroll with your buddy. you seem to have an excellent grasp of poker theory and the discipline to apply it. why share "profits" with an inferior player. never look at it like your also hedging your losses. you sit down to win, so don't take insurance that you might lose. especially at a place like that. if it was a bigger game that you were waiting to get into on campus, that you knew to be tough, then i would hedge. i too love o8, and have found the game to be very profitable over time because people are just horrible, but i have switched back to no limit because people are just as bad if not worse. the payoffs are much bigger on your big hands. you need cards in o8, in nl you just need common sense.dave

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aseem, i think you made two mistakes on your first casino trip. your biggest was leaving a no limit game that you were crushing for $100 an hour, with unlimited possibilities, to play in a 2-4 game that if you were catcthing cards you might be able to win $20 an hour.
it was definitely a juicy game, but i wasn't about to think that i was beating the game for $100/hr (three hours is next to nothing in the long run). cashing out was also a way to protect my money (i know a lot of people say that how much you're up or down shouldn't influence you, but i don't think this is totally applicable in NL--stack size often changes the game a lot, and one unlucky hand can cost you 80% of your big stack). the biggest reason, though, was that i just wanted to sit at a limit table. i had heard lots of good things about casino limit games, and i figured it would be just as juicy but more stable. i just prefer the stability of limit games over the volatility of NL ones... personal taste, though.
your other mistake was sharing the bankroll with your buddy. you seem to have an excellent grasp of poker theory and the discipline to apply it. why share "profits" with an inferior player. never look at it like your also hedging your losses. you sit down to win, so don't take insurance that you might lose. especially at a place like that. if it was a bigger game that you were waiting to get into on campus, that you knew to be tough, then i would hedge.
well, i knew that it would cost me money (-EV), but that was okay with me. i wasn't going there to make money (i can do that online); i was going for the experience and for fun. plus, i think the visit and the drive are a lot more fun with a friend or two, and the last thing i would want is my friend to never want to go to the casino again if he busted. in a way, i wasn't really worried about taking insurance on my own money (i've played $1/2 NL before, and my bankroll can handle the swings), i was doing it more to cover my friend from the swings. it was okay with me, though.
i too love o8, and have found the game to be very profitable over time because people are just horrible, but i have switched back to no limit because people are just as bad if not worse. the payoffs are much bigger on your big hands. you need cards in o8, in nl you just need common sense.
well, the payouts in NL are bigger, but so are the suckouts. assuming you have a certain bankroll, playing at correct NL stakes has around the same winrate as correct limit stakes--the variance is just higher in NL (your winrate in NL might be bigger if you're a better player, but assuming you play well at both, they are actually around the same in terms of sheer dollar amount). in omaha hi/lo, people play awfully, and you can have a really high winrate in the long run (around 10 BB/100). again, just personal taste...aseem
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weekend trip.the casino experience will not be as profitable as online so you are going for much more than that. you require an immersion experience - this requires a whole weekend.it should help your game. live and online are worlds apart. like parallel universes.
i like the idea a lot. :-) what are the lowest stakes (limit HE, NL HE, and limit O8) you can find in AC? what casino would you prefer (borgata, taj, any others)?aseem
Lowest stakes in AC is 2/4 limit and 1/2 NL. Weekday tournaments are about $40, and weekend tournaments are $200-400. Borgata is the hot casino right now, with the best and newest poker room. I haven't been there yet but from what I hear it's full of young hotshots who think they're on ESPN. I prefer Tropicana because you can always get a seat pretty quick and the room is run smoothly. The Taj poker room is the biggest, but the waits get long and the chips are hideously dirty. Sands and Bally's also have poker rooms. Both are smaller and Bally's is where all the smokers are at.
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we were playing on the same table for part of the time, but there was no funny business.
I believe that. But don't be surprised if Mr. Georgiev hasn't already started a dossier on you.
:club: sushiman, thanks for letting me know about AC. what casino has the softest low stakes limit/NL games? (or are they all juicy soft?)aseem
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All the low limits are pretty soft, but I would heavily advice you to go on a weekend. That's when all the young people go and they are absolutely terrible. During the weekdays the tables are filled with senior citizen grinders who are mostly tight/weak, but they don't really leak a lot of money.

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