psujohn 0 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 This is a full ring table that's gotten short handed just recently. Villain has been pretty tight and straight forward but that was at a full table. No idea how he'll respond to short handed play.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Button ($45.65)Hero ($56.55)Preflop: Hero is SB with K , K . 1 fold, Button raises to $2, Hero raises to $5.75, 1 fold, Button calls $3.50.Flop: ($11.75) 3 , Q , 3 (2 players)Hero bets $9, Button calls $9.Turn: ($29.75) Q (2 players)Hero ??Obv not the card I wanted to see. Push? Bet/call? Bet/fold? Check/call? Check/fold? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Check/fold Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I'd probably keep betting until he shows me I'm behind. JJ will prob call 2 bets here, as will AK/AJ etc if they're donk enough.Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 mtdesmoines:kidding, right? Link to post Share on other sites
mikeysong 0 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I'd probably keep betting until he shows me I'm behind. JJ will prob call 2 bets here, as will AK/AJ etc if they're donk enough.Markmark-anything wrong with a check call here and then making a decision? It's hard but I'm starting ot love these linesbtw, pushing this turn is HORRIBLEyou very rarely inspire a super hero JJ call (lol) Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 mtdesmoines:kidding, right?Not really. Put the villain on a hand. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 22-AA, AQ, KQ, big hearts...You are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO scared of monsters dude. It's sickening. Link to post Share on other sites
Dictius 0 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I probably bet/fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Check/call turn. Check/fold to a large river bet. Villain might bet turn if you check here but I think he'd check behind 88-JJ for showdown value on river.Edit: I just noticed villain only has like 30 behind so this really isn't an option. Sick spot. Check/fold doesn't sound THAT bad because you commit yourself to the pot with really any bet or check/call. I don't have a problem with trying to get to showdown cheap but it seems like that might be difficult. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Check/call turn. Check/fold to a large river bet. Villain might bet turn if you check here but I think he'd check behind 88-JJ for showdown value on river.bingo. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I probably bet/fold.Are we expecting TT, JJ type hands to call again? Link to post Share on other sites
Dictius 0 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Are we expecting TT, JJ type hands to call again?If JJ/TT thought they were ahead on the flop, the second Q doesn't change anything except now it's less likely we have a Q.I would expect alot of lower pocket pairs and Aces to call a bet but it would be pretty brave for them to raise.Would you expect JJ/TT to bet on this board? I think any hand we are ahead of would check behind on the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 If JJ/TT thought they were ahead on the flop, the second Q doesn't change anything except now it's less likely we have a Q.I would expect alot of lower pocket pairs and Aces to call a bet but it would be pretty brave for them to raise.Would you expect JJ/TT to bet on this board? I think any hand we are ahead of would check behind on the turn.Yeah, I'm not too sure.I could see JJ/TT calling just as much as I could see them betting if checked to. I'm not sure how often an ace calls us down here though. Link to post Share on other sites
Dictius 0 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Actually bet/fold sucks. Theres about $30 in the pot and villain only has $30 left, if we bet like $20 are we really going to fold for $10 more?I think check/fold is too weak, so I have no idea what to do lol maybe crai? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 oh lol, I didn't even notice stack sizes.With only one PSB left, I'd be bet/calling or c/r'ing ai, I think.I just think c/f is too weak! Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I think there isn't anything wrong with a CRAI here since we're going to find it hard to fold this anyway, we'll allow him to stab with worse hands before hammering him, and show a lot of strength and prevent him from calling with just a naked flush draw or something. I don't think this is always AQ, but I guess the times it is they are going to get all of our money for the poker gods delivering us that retarded turn card. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I'd probably keep betting until he shows me I'm behind. JJ will prob call 2 bets here, as will AK/AJ etc if they're donk enough.Mark mark-anything wrong with a check call here and then making a decision? It's hard but I'm starting ot love these linesbtw, pushing this turn is HORRIBLEyou very rarely inspire a super hero JJ call (lol) Check/call turn. Check/fold to a large river bet. Villain might bet turn if you check here but I think he'd check behind 88-JJ for showdown value on river.Edit: I just noticed villain only has like 30 behind so this really isn't an option. Sick spot. Check/fold doesn't sound THAT bad because you commit yourself to the pot with really any bet or check/call. I don't have a problem with trying to get to showdown cheap but it seems like that might be difficult.I like parts of all of these.1 is we bet again, we fold to a raise. more often than not, even if he has a Q, he'll probably just call the bet, same with a FD and JJ,10,10.2 is that we check to see what villain does. our check can look like a trap as often as it will look like we're scared. 3rd option, we check/raise if he bets. we'll find out exactly how far we are behind with this move.although, like zach said, stacks are kinda lame at this point, so ya. a CR will be committing ourselves Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 22-AA, AQ, KQ, big hearts...Possibly QJ, QT too since this is only 4 handed at this point.And yes, villain has one pot sized bet left.I tanked on this one. I considered c/f but if I check I think he can shove with pretty much all of his range and we crush most of it. Plus he can check behind with a heart draw. I considered shoving but I don't want to fold his weakest holdings and get instacalled by his strongest.The big problem with betting here is that given stack sizes a bet is almost the same as a push if villain has a clue. If we bet 20 and villain shoves it's only 10 or so more for us to call getting 9:1.After the hand I was struck with the question of whether it's one of those hands where it's better for us to call an all-in than to put villain all-in and be called. In other words will villain shove with a wider range than he'll call with. Minus the heart draw I think I'd prefer a check/call or crai line. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 stuffyou hold the K hearts. meaning if he is on some kind of flush draw that he raises / calls with, what type of holding is it?would he raise suited connectors? or would this be AhJh?also, what hands would he raise that flop with? AQ? what about KQ? or would he just flat call with a weak Q like J,Qs etc...1 more question, back to preflop.. whats been the standard pf action at the table? u say he has been pretty standard Tight.so, like i said, what hands is he raising and calling a re-raise with, but not re-poping? would he re-pop QQ? that would be sick if he smooth called preflop with Queens and now has quads.anyways, my point is, without much info this could be a Q or a FD.since we're kinda torn between the various hands, why not check/ see what he doesm if he takes a free card and the flush misses, you can go from there. I think i'm going check/check, on turn and river here and calling any bets on the river. that way he bluffs with missed draws, value bets with a monster, and we hopefully lose the min. when behind, but sacrifice a little ev when ahead.which i dont think is so bad, since the majority of people are soo focused on the EV of hands, they lose sight at minimizing our losses which IMO, is a bigger issue Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 The big problem with betting here is that given stack sizes a bet is almost the same as a push if villain has a clue. If we bet 20 and villain shoves it's only 10 or so more for us to call getting 9:1.Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 which i dont think is so bad, since the majority of people are soo focused on the EV of hands, they lose sight at minimizing our losses which IMO, is a bigger issueAgain, exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 since we're kinda torn between the various hands, why not check/ see what he doesm if he takes a free card and the flush misses, you can go from there. I think i'm going check/check, on turn and river here and calling any bets on the river. that way he bluffs with missed draws, value bets with a monster, and we hopefully lose the min. when behind, but sacrifice a little ev when ahead.Doesn't a competent villain with a monster pot the river? I think we're pretty much getting stacked when we're behind. I haven't really formed an opinion on which line is best, but it seems to me that the only way we get off this hand is check/fold. And we don't seem to like check/fold, so I think it's all about maximizing the return when we're ahead. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Doesn't a competent villain with a monster pot the river? I think we're pretty much getting stacked when we're behind. I haven't really formed an opinion on which line is best, but it seems to me that the only way we get off this hand is check/fold. And we don't seem to like check/fold, so I think it's all about maximizing the return when we're ahead.Villain isn't coming anywhere near this pot with a holding we beat. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Villain isn't coming anywhere near this pot with a holding we beat.Meaning we can't value bet? Then all our further upside comes from snapping off a bluff on the river. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Meaning we can't value bet? Then all our further upside comes from snapping off a bluff on the river.We're the ones bluffing. We have a $30 pot with around $40 behind and a now double-paired board with action. You can fire if you want, but unless we river a K, we're behind like ... 80% of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now