No_Neck 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Poker StarsNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.25/$0.506 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $49.50UTG+1: $49.30CO: $30.25Button: $57.25Hero: $53.80BB: $66.15Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with Q Q UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button raises to $4, Hero raises to $14, 2 folds, Button calls.Flop: 6 A 5 ($29, 2 players)Hero bets $25, Button raises all-in $43.25, Hero calls all-in $14.8.Uncalled bets: $3.45 returned to Button.villian is very active but I only have 5 hands on him so stats are useless. Link to post Share on other sites
Metternich 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 these situations are a huge leak for me, I need to know how other people play this. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Well after your flop bet you can't fold.... but if you don't c-bet maybe a weaker hand takes you out of the pot... ugh, that just sucks basically.... I think when you put in 28BB's preflop though you basically decided you were dying with this hand. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'd probably bet $20 and fold to shove. If your stats had more history to them I'd consider bet/call line more heavily.Edit: I like a little bit bigger PF reraise, I think you pot bet there. I'd like to make it $16ish OOP. Or a couple bucks bigger than pot. Link to post Share on other sites
NonZeroPossibility 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 wow, that was awful.... obv you are beat. Would you have played 77 the same way? Because 77 thru KK basically have the same value on this flop. Any Ace and your done son. Link to post Share on other sites
shinzilla 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 This is actually one of those rare hands that are posted nowadays in the forum that merits a lot of discussion. It's tough. b/c? b/f? c/c? c/f? I myself am uncertain what to do in situations like these. Obviously, if you c-bet, you're probably not going to get called by a hand you beat. Then again, if you check, you're leaving yourself open to get bluffed. I think c-betting's burning money for the most part, but for a balanced strategy, you want to bet there a small percentage of the time. I'd probably check on this flop and bet the turn if checked through. If he bets... then we have a tough decision. It'd probably depend on the amount he bet and just the sense I get from his bet sizing compared to how he bet certain hands earlier in the session. Link to post Share on other sites
nomad_monad 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 NN, I don't think there's any value in betting this flop, except maybe to fold KK (which doesn't seem too likely given the pf action). You fold everything JJ on down (unless villain really is retarded). You're also not really worried too much about diamonds since the main drawing hand we'd even really think about here would be KdQd, which isn't possible. You can't even bet just for info either since you'd be committed. If you really think villain's lagging it up hard and you're planning to stack off, then I prefer to do it by calling down rather than betting and calling a push.EDIT - deleted references to villain stats. For some reason I thought I saw 30/20 but I guess I can't read. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Why not just check/call down from the flop?He's never folding a better hand, and most of the time just folding hands we beat, if we bet. So, if we check, we let him bluff off, in addition to the original stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
Roberts2003 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 i usually CR AI on flops like these. but yeah, these spots suck in general and theres a good chance he has AQ, AJ, A10. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Did you beat him anyway, Mr. Rungooder? I don't think I reraise so much preflop, maybe to 11 or 11.5. Make use of those decimals! Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Why don't you fold when he shoves on you? Also, why not bet $20 like skillz suggested?I'm not a huge fan of this unless you're pretty sure that he shows up with a hand that's NOT Ax here, and given the lack of history, you can't be sure of that. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 alright so here is my thought process.. I think the call preflop we are dealing with a pair here a lot of the time. Maybe some A's but I think pairs are the biggest part of his range here for sure. He also took a long time to call my bet.Now I think my C-bet, is where it gets interesting, since I only have a few hands on this guy, but it seemed clear that he was very aggressive. I think I should have made my bet size a little bit smaller in hoping to fein that he has some sort of fold equity. Many lag players I have found will push regardless of thier holdings. So I called.... Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 This is pretty bad reasoning, imo.If he's LAGgy, you should check this flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Yeah, if you're willing to get it in here, CRAI is the way to go becuase he will have to at least consider folding some Ax hands.I'm not too eager to get it in here and esp not the way you played it.Knowing how you're running, 1 of 4 things happened.1. You called. He showed AA. The board ran out diamonds.2. You called. He showed a set. You ran out quads (or diamonds).3. You called. He had JJ and missed.4. You called. He inexplicably had the nut low draw wth 23o, thinking it was a split pot game. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 This is pretty bad reasoning, imo.this is why I posted it :-) Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Yeah, if you're willing to get it in here, CRAI is the way to go becuase he will have to at least consider folding some Ax hands.I'm not too eager to get it in here and esp not the way you played it.Knowing how you're running, 1 of 4 things happened.1. You called. He showed AA. The board ran out diamonds.2. You called. He showed a set. You ran out quads (or diamonds).3. You called. He had JJ and missed.4. You called. He inexplicably had the nut low draw wth 23o, thinking it was a split pot game.I agree with the check raise allin, I just think that check folding too weak Link to post Share on other sites
AcesOnFire 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 He have AJ/AT? Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 CRAI or Check fold imo.I don't like betting here because you're often forced to call his all in drawing to two outs.Checking gives you option of reacting to what the villain does, it's hard as you don't have any history to make a read with but i think it's the best choice.Also CRAI will get better hands to fold sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites
dapokerbum 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I was going to start a new topic but this has just the thing I wanted to cover:Here is the same sort of hand that I went thru yesterday during some live 2/3 with $200 max buy in. Now granted this is not EXACTLY the same thing but more the same type of hand and also a disclaimer to how bad the play is for those of you that can't get to a casino and see for yourself.So here is the scenario:9 people at the table. Important stacks. CO+1 ($400) CO ($650) Button ($300) BB ($140)BB is dealt KKCO+1 Call, CO Call, Button Call, BB Raise to $15 (normal raises were 8-10) Everyone calls.Flop is A22 with two hearts.BB Checks? Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I was going to start a new topic but this has just the thing I wanted to cover:Here is the same sort of hand that I went thru yesterday during some live 2/3 with $200 max buy in. Now granted this is not EXACTLY the same thing but more the same type of hand and also a disclaimer to how bad the play is for those of you that can't get to a casino and see for yourself.So here is the scenario:9 people at the table. Important stacks. CO+1 ($400) CO ($650) Button ($300) BB ($140)BB is dealt KKCO+1 Call, CO Call, Button Call, BB Raise to $15 (normal raises were 8-10) Everyone calls.Flop is A22 with two hearts.BB Checks?In a casino? Grip chips, then check. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 alright guys I think a check raise allin is what my play should have been, Villian had 44 and then left the table after this hand. I dunno how else to play it. Link to post Share on other sites
dapokerbum 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I was going to start a new topic but this has just the thing I wanted to cover:Here is the same sort of hand that I went thru yesterday during some live 2/3 with $200 max buy in. Now granted this is not EXACTLY the same thing but more the same type of hand and also a disclaimer to how bad the play is for those of you that can't get to a casino and see for yourself.So here is the scenario:9 people at the table. Important stacks. CO+1 ($400) CO ($650) Button ($300) BB ($140)BB is dealt KKCO+1 Call, CO Call, Button Call, BB Raise to $15 (normal raises were 8-10) Everyone calls.Flop is A22 with two hearts.BB Checks?Well I guess obviously me as the BB checks and then CO+1 bets $30, two calls and I fold.Turn is 3c. CO+1 bets $100 CO goes all in BUtton thinks for a minute and calls as does CO+1River 7d CO+1 Proudly shows his A8os, Button shows his A3os and of course the CO shows his "monster" K2os to take down an over $1000 pot!Gotta Love Live Play Link to post Share on other sites
shinzilla 0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'm still not confident that CRAI is the best option here. How are we doing against villain's perceived betting range here? Someone want to run the numbers? Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'm still not confident that CRAI is the best option here. How are we doing against villain's perceived betting range here? Someone want to run the numbers?Well, we're either drawing almost dead or he is, so we're counting on the fact that he bluffs enough to make this profitable. That's really all it comes down to. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now