How Spewey Was This? $3r 180 Stars

[CorvairShaggy 5]

On a scale of 1-10, how bad spewey was this play?? Here is my thoughts. I had ~20bb so flatting with 2 people was ok, with the hopes of catching a 6. When the flop hits, I don't feel too good. The whole table was loose, especially these two Vs with a VP over 50% AFTER the add-on break. Basically with the 1/2 pot open and call, I felt like they were drawing. Now, how spewey is this shove?? I am basically turning my hand into a bluff, but do have the set as protection against some weird pair/2-pair, but am drawing practically dead or flipping the last 2 streets. My trial ran out for SNG wizard, and I cannot figure out how to use pokerstove properly. So, how often, if ever are you ahead here, or is this a flip situation, or just a very bad play by me and just got extremely F'n lucky. BTW - I did make it to 5th, but only because of this boost.Stars $3 Re-Buy 180-man AFTER ADD-ON BREAKConverting hands till the cows come homePokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t400/t800 ante t75 - 9 playersButton NutCrackerAA: t9,670 SB traceylee01: t9,962 BB underdogggg@: t12,645 UTG Charlie1201: t11,995 UTG+1 stutzy74: t2,370 MP cwirek1982: t19,485 MP2 Mehlhose: t11,765 HJ stein99: t22,902 CO Hero: t21,020 Preflop: (t1,875) Hero is CO with (9 players)2 folds, cwirek1982 raises to t2400, Mehlhose folds, stein99 calls t2400, Hero calls t2400, 2 folds, underdogggg@ foldsFlop: (t9,075) (3 players)cwirek1982 bets t4800, stein99 calls t4800, Hero raises to t18545 and is all-in, cwirek1982 folds, stein99 calls t13745Turn: (t50,965) (2 players)River: (t50,965) (2 players)stein99 showed , and lost with a flush, King highHero showed , and won (50965) with a full house, Sixes full of JacksHero won t50965

[donk4life 34]

Lol you got it in with a set 20 bbs deep, that's not spewey at all. You do realize people are going to call you with hands that you dominate? I'm not sure why you're saying you're turning your hand into a bluff?

[CorvairShaggy 5]

Lol you got it in with a set 20 bbs deep, that's not spewey at all. You do realize people are going to call you with hands that you dominate? I'm not sure why you're saying you're turning your hand into a bluff?

With the board being just ripe for a flush and 2 people hanging around, just wondered if this was bad. I still have problems with playing against a flushy board. Seems like everytime someone has it from the jump, like in this case. Results oriented thinking again

[TrueAce13 18]

Almost anytime you get all your chips in the middle with a set, it is not spewy

[HighwayStar 8]

Fold or shove preflop

[TrueAce13 18]

Fold or shove preflop

oh, i thought there were 2 flatters...yeh 100% this

[rrumsey 0]

Fold or shove preflop

yah that was my first thought. we need to have a plan pre for how we can play this hand postflop. if we can't, then we decide if we shove or fold pre. given everything in the pot, this kinda looks ideal to squeeze shove pre. we gain almost 5K of chips when they fold, so we increase our stack by 20%,... thats pretty good. plus we have equity against AK, AQ hands, we are onyl screwed when villains have nice PP's and snap us. but we have plenty of FE imo to make this generally a nice profitable shove.

[HighwayStar 8]

oh, i thought there were 2 flatters...yeh 100% this

i think flatting doing anythng but closing the action is pretty damned hood

[CorvairShaggy 5]

OK I get yelled at for shoving 22, but not 66??? I just can't get right on ranges. I was thinking shoving anything lower than 99 here with 20BB would be spewey. I was flatting 3 BBs just to set mine, that was my game plan. Hit set being OP with 2 loosey gooseys, if the right board came I could get it all in. With there being a high chance of a flush being hit or drawn too, that is what made me question this play, that and the fact I got lucky as hell. I was thinking if no set could fold and still be at ~16BB. Too nitty thought processs on my part?Now, the next time this situation comes up PF against loose players, what would be a good range here??Also, it is not spewey to shove set into a flush or str8 flop (I.E. 8 9 10, 6 7 8, etc.). When you are at ~20BB? Or because playing at this level it would be ok, but not at higher level ($12)?Explain "i think flatting doing anything but closing the action is pretty damned hood"Thanks!

[HighwayStar 8]

Doing anything except what you did on this flop is awful. It doesn't matter what the buy in is. I don't understand why you thik it's spewy. The chances of someone flopping a flush are small. The chance of someone stacking off drawing close to dead here is higher. People stacking off with 35% equity probably the most likely.Preflop, if they both have widish ranges 66 is a good jam. There is 20% of your stack in the middle already and you#re not in terrible shape vs a calling range. 22 has about 5% less equity vs a normalish calling range which is huge in the long term. This is absolutely nothing like the 22 hand I think you're talking about. If either of them is particularly tight then you can probably just fold although I would probably jam more often than not in game. I would guess that you almost never be folding 88.You can't set mine this shallow unless you are getting a really good price and it's not likely someone will reshove behind you - this could easily happen here given the stacks in the blinds/on the button. YOu are committed to call if it folds back to you when this happens although often you are just gona get pushed out by the original raiser or flatter.

[TrueAce13 18]

Yeah, what phil said...I really didn't look at this hand too indepth, execpt see that we had a set

[CorvairShaggy 5]

Doing anything except what you did on this flop is awful. It doesn't matter what the buy in is. I don't understand why you thik it's spewy. The chances of someone flopping a flush are small. The chance of someone stacking off drawing close to dead here is higher. People stacking off with 35% equity probably the most likely.Preflop, if they both have widish ranges 66 is a good jam. There is 20% of your stack in the middle already and you#re not in terrible shape vs a calling range. 22 has about 5% less equity vs a normalish calling range which is huge in the long term. This is absolutely nothing like the 22 hand I think you're talking about. If either of them is particularly tight then you can probably just fold although I would probably jam more often than not in game. I would guess that you almost never be folding 88.You can't set mine this shallow unless you are getting a really good price and it's not likely someone will reshove behind you - this could easily happen here given the stacks in the blinds/on the button. YOu are committed to call if it folds back to you when this happens although often you are just gona get pushed out by the original raiser or flatter.

OK So I played this one well, except shoving pre would have been better. Only reason I worried about spewy was the 3 card onboard flush. Seems like everytime I make a move, someone has the flush here. Like I said earlier, just results oriented thinking. If I was ~12BB or less, I definetly would have shoved this pre. {PREFLOP} So, if button or blind shove this and the original raiser and flatter folds, you still call? I am thinking yes on any table because it could be a someone just trying to steal. If button/blinds shoves, and both raiser and flatter call shove as well, are you still calling pre here with ~17BBs left? On a tight table I would assume lay it down, but loose table do you still lay it down? So many over cards that could catch 2-4 people.

[HighwayStar 8]

OK So I played this one well, except shoving pre would have been better. Only reason I worried about spewy was the 3 card onboard flush. Seems like everytime I make a move, someone has the flush here. Like I said earlier, just results oriented thinking. If I was ~12BB or less, I definetly would have shoved this pre. {PREFLOP} So, if button or blind shove this and the original raiser and flatter folds, you still call? I am thinking yes on any table because it could be a someone just trying to steal. If button/blinds shoves, and both raiser and flatter call shove as well, are you still calling pre here with ~17BBs left? On a tight table I would assume lay it down, but loose table do you still lay it down? So many over cards that could catch 2-4 people.

fwiw I think it's pretty bad to shove here with no real fold equity unless they have obscenely wide ranges. You have a ton of fold equity with 25 BBs, not so much with 12.In this case (with the blinds all 10-15 BBs) you're going to be getting a ridiculous price if you flat and it comes back around so you have to call regardless of the player who jammed. It's not a wonderufl spot to have to call off half your stack but you have to.Sticking in 66 after a reshove and an iso from the original raiser/flatter is going to be fairly bad regardless of the players.

[TrueAce13 18]

Corvair...read Bond18's articles things it took me a while to learnThough they are a little old, you can get a lot of information, especially about stack sizes

[CorvairShaggy 5]

Corvair...read Bond18's articles things it took me a while to learnThough they are a little old, you can get a lot of information, especially about stack sizes

Thanks! I'll search for them. Yeah, I think I am getting to that annoying learning stage where you have the basics down, but trying to learn more mathematics/stack size call/shove/folds, trick plays, etc. The questions just keep coming and coming. I am actually enjoying it more now than ever because I am starting to "see the light". It was nice to finsh ITM, and especially a FT cash. This was the only hand that I questioned how I played it, so I feel good about that. I stayed deep for most of the tourney, so I could not practice what I learned the other day about shove ranges short stacked, but I did get better at not giving away so many walks, but I am sure I still left alot of value on the table. Will work on that later on.