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Bad News For Poker

KHSPoker21

By KHSPoker21,
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KHSPoker21

KHSPoker21 0

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Compliance 12/1/09The Department of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve Board today announced the release of a joint final rule to implement the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006. The Act prohibits gambling businesses from knowingly accepting payments in connection with unlawful Internet gambling, including payments made through credit cards, electronic funds transfers, and checks.The Board and the Treasury are required by the Act to develop a joint rule in consultation with the Department of Justice. The final rule requires U.S. financial firms that participate in designated payment systems to establish and implement policies and procedures that are reasonably designed to prevent payments to gambling businesses in connection with unlawful Internet gambling. The rule provides non-exclusive examples of such policies and procedures and sets out the regulatory enforcement framework. For purposes of the rule, unlawful Internet gambling generally would cover the making of a bet or wager that involves use of the Internet and that is unlawful under any applicable federal or state law in the jurisdiction where the bet or wager is initiated, received, or otherwise made.Compliance with the rule is required by December 1, 2009.http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsev...20081112a1.pdfhttp://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-...a-final-342240/

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Sheiky

Sheiky 0

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For the record, this doesn't change the current situation at all, right? It just solidifies it for a while?
From reading the first two pages of the 2+2 thread, reaction over what this will do is mixed. It appears that when enforced, it will become illegal for ANY financial institution to accept deposits or transfer money with ANY gambling affliated institution. It won't be illegal to play, but a LOT harder for fish to deposit money.
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Jariso13

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Its all gonna depend on which financial institutions consider poker as a skill game and which consider it gambling. For those that consider it a game of skill nothing will change. For those that consider it gambling stuff will change only if they havent already been enforcing the UIEGA.The fact of the matter is, no matter how dumb the law is, if it is going to be on the books it needs to be rewritten. It should be written clearly and left left up to interpretation as it currently is. They need to remove the gray areas. (And in reality they should just remove the entire freakin law)

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Merby

Merby 3

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Obama and the Democrats will be running the show next year.Chances are they overturn this?
I'm thinking that this is the very reason that it is being finalized now -- *before* Obama gains control. It will be a lot harder for Obama to reverse once it is set up... and honestly, he will have much more pressing issues to deal with rather than the UIGEA. Add to that that in the current financial situation of most US banks, they cannot afford *NOT* to comply...
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Tugglife2

Tugglife2 0

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This was posted on the 2+2 forums. Dear Friend:Thank you for taking the time to contact me regarding the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (UIGEA). I appreciate hearing from all Pennsylvanians about the issues that matter most to them.UIGEA cuts off revenue streams to unlawful Internet gambling businesses. It prohibits the receipt of checks, credit card charges and electronic funds transfers by such businesses. Banks, credit card issuers and other payment system participants have been enlisted to help cut off these revenue streams.Currently there are a number of bills in the House of Representatives which deal with the regulation of Internet gambling. These bills would help better define some of the ambiguities found in the UIGEA. H.R. 5767 would place a moratorium on UIGEA. H.R. 2610, the Skill Game Protection Act, would exempt poker and other games of skill from federal prohibition. H.R. 2046, the Internet Gambling and Regulation Enforcement Act, would regulate Internet gambling. H.R. 2607, the Internet Gambling Regulation and Tax Enforcement Act, would establish a licensing fee regime within the Internal Revenue Code for Internet gambling operators. If similar bills are introduced in the Senate, please be assured that I will keep your views in mind.Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future about this or any other matter of importance to you.If you have access to the Internet, I encourage you to visit my web site, http://casey.senate.gov. I invite you to use this online office as a comprehensive resource to stay up-to-date on my work in Washington, request assistance from my office or share with me your thoughts on the issues that matter most to you and to Pennsylvania.Sincerely,Bob CaseyUnited States Senator

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mtdesmoines

mtdesmoines 3

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From reading the first two pages of the 2+2 thread, reaction over what this will do is mixed. It appears that when enforced, it will become illegal for ANY financial institution to accept deposits or transfer money with ANY gambling affliated institution. It won't be illegal to play, but a LOT harder for fish to deposit money.
And the rake will eat the rest. Fast or slow, doesn't matter. The house will get it all.
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RDog

RDog 0

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Its all gonna depend on which financial institutions consider poker as a skill game and which consider it gambling. For those that consider it a game of skill nothing will change. For those that consider it gambling stuff will change only if they havent already been enforcing the UIEGA.The fact of the matter is, no matter how dumb the law is, if it is going to be on the books it needs to be rewritten. It should be written clearly and left left up to interpretation as it currently is. They need to remove the gray areas. (And in reality they should just remove the entire freakin law)
Although the regulations do leave this open to interpretation there is no doubt that instead of trying to figure out which gambling transactions are lawful, they will just cut all of them off.
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Dirtydutch

Dirtydutch 8

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Can someone whos smarter than me make cliffnotes?
- The government doesn't actually give a shit about you, just whoever can make the most noise and in some way threaten the length of their time in power.- Religious idiots make up a large portion of the country, and they are really, really concerned with what you are allowed to do with your time.- Time to go to college, I guess.
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Tugglife2

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Courtesy of burden2reasons for optimism:- western union type money transfers go to people in other countries with so there is no way to know that someone is sending money to an wagering website in another country as oppose to their family member or some other "legitimate" receiver. It's practically impossible to stop western union and moneygraham transfers, so you can fund an account if a site accepts US players, and so can the so-called fish.- banks are not really in a position to say "we are not accepting deposits from that bank", that bank being whatever bank your poker site uses for payouts. Banks need money now. Furthermore, there are a lot of banks. If your bank won't accept your payout check, find one that will.- Not to kill the fun of handicapping the effect of this order, but all that matters is how banks and poker sites interpret this law. Luckily, they want US business. Luckily, laws don't mean **** unless they are enforced. Luckily, Obama won the election. There is just no way that these institutions are going to change the way they do anything until they have an indication that the new administration will enforce this crap, and there is absolutely no reason to think that the new administration will. As long as Obama doesn't "reach across the isle" when picking a new attorney general, which he won't, we should be OK. I say he won't because the attorney general will be essential for reversing a lot of BS that Obama was elected to reverse. Appoiting some repub to AG would be a supreme insult to Obama's core consituency.I actually have more money in offshore sportsbetting accounts than in my poker accounts. Sportsbooks are far more likely to freeze someones account or make some excuse to not payout, but I feel fine.I'm a skeptical, suspicious dude and I feel fine.

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Tugglife2

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Hello XXXXX,Thank you for your email.PokerStars continues to offer its services to players from the US.You may play on our site as you could prior to the passage of theUIGEA. This legislation is not aimed at players and does not changethe legality of playing online poker.You may read our company statement on the web site atwww.pokerstars.com/legislation/uigea/We would like to reassure you that all funds held with PokerStars arecompletely secure. Player deposits are held in a separate bankaccount so that they remain completely isolated from all other aspectsof the business.If there is anything else we may help you with, please let us know.Regards,VielkaPokerStars Support Team

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chgocubs99

chgocubs99 0

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It's all well and good that people can get money out and, in theory, possibly still deposit. But unless it is at least moderately easy to get money onto the sites, none of that matters because fish won't deposit.All that being said, I'm not knowledgeable enough about the law to have any idea of how to interpret what is going to happen, so I'm not going to bother to try and guess. We'll just have to see how it plays out just like we have for the last 2+ years.

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RDog

RDog 0

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It's all well and good that people can get money out and, in theory, possibly still deposit. But unless it is at least moderately easy to get money onto the sites, none of that matters because fish won't deposit.All that being said, I'm not knowledgeable enough about the law to have any idea of how to interpret what is going to happen, so I'm not going to bother to try and guess. We'll just have to see how it plays out just like we have for the last 2+ years.
It really isn't easy to get money on these days as it is. Anyone I know that needs to get money on calls me because they know that other avenues aren't likely to work. I mean, I would think that there will be random Western Union, Moneygram type places for those people that don't know anyone that can transfer them money. I think foreign companies might be able to get creative and find a good business here actually. I would think there are ways to get money to a foreign company without going through a US Bank.
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