This Seems Like A Very Bad Way To Convince Me..

[Loismustdie 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/16/buffal...ding/index.html That's just horrible.

[Avaron 0]

what rest?

[LongLiveYorke 38]

"He launched Bridges TV, billed as the first English-language cable channel targeting Muslims inside the United States, in 2004. At the time, Hassan said he hoped the network would balance negative portrayals of Muslims following the attacks of September 11, 2001."Something tells me he has done slightly more harm than good to the Muslim image. It's a shame.

[antistuff 0]

what rest?

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I hope when people read this they don't just focus on the fact that a Muslim has beheaded his wife. That's the sensational headline stuff that small minds and ignorance will focus on.The deeper story and one that people should focus on is the fact that in many places in the World a woman is viewed more as her Husband's property than she is as a person in her own right. This is a cultural issue and not a religious one. This story could have been about a Hindu or a Sikh originally from India as it could be a Muslim. I know most people don't know the difference since they all look like terrorists to them.That being said Domestic Violence and misogyny are not only in those communities but also in every community and this story could just as easily been about Joe Six Pack shooting his wife. The thing that I take when I read stories like this is how sad it is no matter who the victim or the killer is.

[Balloon guy 158]

Hasan Chop!Copyright

[Balloon guy 158]

I hope when people read this they don't just focus on the fact that a Muslim has beheaded his wife. That's the sensational headline stuff that small minds and ignorance will focus on.The deeper story and one that people should focus on is the fact that in many places in the World a woman is viewed more as her Husband's property than she is as a person in her own right. This is a cultural issue and not a religious one. This story could have been about a Hindu or a Sikh originally from India as it could be a Muslim. I know most people don't know the difference since they all look like terrorists to them.That being said Domestic Violence and misogyny are not only in those communities but also in every community and this story could just as easily been about Joe Six Pack shooting his wife. The thing that I take when I read stories like this is how sad it is no matter who the victim or the killer is.

Violence against women

[Nimue1995 1]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/16/buffal...ding/index.html That's just horrible.

Every religion has it's nuts. Some of them even are in the media. Every sex scandal that involves a Christian preacher also focuses on the Christian aspect rather than the human one. Human beings of every religion share human flaws. It seems that Muslim fundalmentalism is in the same place now as 15th century Christianity.

[brvheart 1,752]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/16/buffal...ding/index.html That's just horrible.

If there is one thing I learned from this... it's that all muslims are seriously crazy.

[Sal Paradise 57]

If there is one thing I learned from this... it's that all muslims are seriously crazy.

I think it's also now pretty obvious that all of islam teaches violence.

[Loismustdie 0]

I hope when people read this they don't just focus on the fact that a Muslim has beheaded his wife. That's the sensational headline stuff that small minds and ignorance will focus on.The deeper story and one that people should focus on is the fact that in many places in the World a woman is viewed more as her Husband's property than she is as a person in her own right. This is a cultural issue and not a religious one. This story could have been about a Hindu or a Sikh originally from India as it could be a Muslim. I know most people don't know the difference since they all look like terrorists to them.That being said Domestic Violence and misogyny are not only in those communities but also in every community and this story could just as easily been about Joe Six Pack shooting his wife. The thing that I take when I read stories like this is how sad it is no matter who the victim or the killer is.

That's the focus, Bob. Who said it wasn't? That being said, to ignore the religous angle is just dishonest. It's fun to sugarcoat it and pretend it doesn't exist, but it does, and calling me small minded doesn't win the battle, it just makes you the first to fire below the belt.

[Balloon guy 158]

Every religion has it's nuts. Some of them even are in the media. Every sex scandal that involves a Christian preacher also focuses on the Christian aspect rather than the human one. Human beings of every religion share human flaws. It seems that Muslim fundalmentalism is in the same place now as 15th century Christianity.

Huh?

[Loismustdie 0]

Every religion has it's nuts. Some of them even are in the media. Every sex scandal that involves a Christian preacher also focuses on the Christian aspect rather than the human one. Human beings of every religion share human flaws. It seems that Muslim fundalmentalism is in the same place now as 15th century Christianity.

Lol.... if 15th century "Christianity" was around right now I would have no problem calling it what it is. What you are basically saying is Muslim fundamentalist get a walk because someone else was bad years ago. Interesting.

[Loismustdie 0]

Huh?

Or, this.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I hope when people read this they don't just focus on the fact that a Muslim has beheaded his wife. That's the sensational headline stuff that small minds and ignorance will focus on.The deeper story and one that people should focus on is the fact that in many places in the World a woman is viewed more as her Husband's property than she is as a person in her own right. This is a cultural issue and not a religious one. This story could have been about a Hindu or a Sikh originally from India as it could be a Muslim. I know most people don't know the difference since they all look like terrorists to them.That being said Domestic Violence and misogyny are not only in those communities but also in every community and this story could just as easily been about Joe Six Pack shooting his wife. The thing that I take when I read stories like this is how sad it is no matter who the victim or the killer is.

Some of this. ^^^^^^^

Violence against women

Truth. ^^^^^^^^

Every religion has it's nuts. Some of them even are in the media. Every sex scandal that involves a Christian preacher also focuses on the Christian aspect rather than the human one. Human beings of every religion share human flaws. It seems that Muslim fundalmentalism is in the same place now as 15th century Christianity.

Maybe it's better stated that Muslim fundamentalism is in the same place IT was in the 15th century. Or the 7th.

If there is one thing I learned from this... it's that all muslims are seriously crazy.

Many. Not all. If I were a thinking Muslim though, I'd have serious second thoughts about my belief system.

That's the focus, Bob. Who said it wasn't? That being said, to ignore the religous angle is just dishonest. It's fun to sugarcoat it and pretend it doesn't exist, but it does, and calling me small minded doesn't win the battle, it just makes you the first to fire below the belt.

And this.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

That's the focus, Bob. Who said it wasn't? That being said, to ignore the religious angle is just dishonest. It's fun to sugarcoat it and pretend it doesn't exist, but it does, and calling me small minded doesn't win the battle, it just makes you the first to fire below the belt.

Many. Not all. If I were a thinking Muslim though, I'd have serious second thoughts about my belief system.

The thing is that it's much more a cultural issue than a Religious one. The thought process that dehumanizes Women sweeps across all religions in certain regions but due to the anti-Muslim political climate that is current we choose to focus on the religious aspect when it`s a Muslim.While it's true that Religion and Culture are intertwined I would argue that the negative aspects of some cultures have infected Islam and used Religion as an excuse for their anti-Women attitudes and actions.I guess the fact that I'm from Toronto and have friends from many different religions and cultures makes me more sensitive to the subtle differences between things. One of my best friends is a devout Muslim. He's been on the Haj to Mecca, he prays daily and attends his Mosque and only eats Halal.His wife and daughters do not wear bee keepers outfits or even veils. Islam doesn't actually require those things but cultural influences in many parts of the Muslim World have confused the issue by making it a religious issue when it actually isn't. Now it's true that religion and culture are intertwined but it`s important to understand the difference.

[Avaron 0]

If there is one thing I learned from this... it's that all muslims are seriously crazy.

I think it's also now pretty obvious that all of islam teaches violence.

yeah... and christians never kill people...

[vbnautilus 48]

The thing is that it's much more a cultural issue than a Religious one. The thought process that dehumanizes Women sweeps across all religions in certain regions but due to the anti-Muslim political climate that is current we choose to focus on the religious aspect when it`s a Muslim.While it's true that Religion and Culture are intertwined I would argue that the negative aspects of some cultures have infected Islam and used Religion as an excuse for their anti-Women attitudes and actions.I guess the fact that I'm from Toronto and have friends from many different religions and cultures makes me more sensitive to the subtle differences between things. One of my best friends is a devout Muslim. He's been on the Haj to Mecca, he prays daily and attends his Mosque and only eats Halal.His wife and daughters do not wear bee keepers outfits or even veils. Islam doesn't actually require those things but cultural influences in many parts of the Muslim World have confused the issue by making it a religious issue when it actually isn't. Now it's true that religion and culture are intertwined but it`s important to understand the difference.

I disagree. Religion and culture are not only intertwined - religion is culture. In north america we live in a largely secular society where religion is simply an aspect of culture, but in many parts of the world your religion largely determines most of the customs and values in your life from what you eat to how you dress. The fact is that mulsim culture has not made the same advances in the arena of women's rights as the rest of the world, and that much of that is attributable to the religion and the way religious rules are followed. I really don't understand why people are so intent on defending Islam. The fact is that the religion contains some pretty insidious ideologies. There is a pressure to have a politically correct "Islam is good, it's just been corrupted by a small minority" view, but that is rested on a faulty assumption - that all religions are good, equally healthy sets of ideas, and it is quite convincingly betrayed by evidence. Of course there are muslims who have loose interpretations and many muslims are good people (and I'm friends with many of them, etc etc). But all ideologies are not created equal. This one happens to have some pretty dangerous memes in it. This beheading story is not particularly important for how women are treated since its one crazy guy; what is worse is what is happening in western Pakistan where the Taliban have just been given the right to impose religious law. Mohammed himself had had 13 wives. Sets kind of a different example from Jesus or the Buddha.

[James D 0]

That being said Domestic Violence and misogyny are not only in those communities but also in every community and this story could just as easily been about Joe Six Pack shooting his wife. .

Sorry, but to suggest (which is how I read this sentence) that the level of misogyny is the same in Muslim countries as it is in Western countries, is ridiculous.

[Avaron 0]

Sorry, but to suggest (which is how I read this sentence) that the level of misogyny is the same in Muslim countries as it is in Western countries, is ridiculous.

not at all. we just call it "old-fashioned image of the family".

[Loismustdie 0]

The thing is that it's much more a cultural issue than a Religious one. The thought process that dehumanizes Women sweeps across all religions in certain regions but due to the anti-Muslim political climate that is current we choose to focus on the religious aspect when it`s a Muslim.While it's true that Religion and Culture are intertwined I would argue that the negative aspects of some cultures have infected Islam and used Religion as an excuse for their anti-Women attitudes and actions.I guess the fact that I'm from Toronto and have friends from many different religions and cultures makes me more sensitive to the subtle differences between things. One of my best friends is a devout Muslim. He's been on the Haj to Mecca, he prays daily and attends his Mosque and only eats Halal.His wife and daughters do not wear bee keepers outfits or even veils. Islam doesn't actually require those things but cultural influences in many parts of the Muslim World have confused the issue by making it a religious issue when it actually isn't. Now it's true that religion and culture are intertwined but it`s important to understand the difference.

Somebody already covered this but when it comes to this, Religion is the culture. I agree with you, in that I know people who practice watered down versions and when shown what is actually taught deny that it exists, much like say, a christian who continues to be a drunkard, but the fact is the watered down version is as worthy of death as anything else to the true believer.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I disagree. Religion and culture are not only intertwined - religion is culture. In north america we live in a largely secular society where religion is simply an aspect of culture, but in many parts of the world your religion largely determines most of the customs and values in your life from what you eat to how you dress. The fact is that mulsim culture has not made the same advances in the arena of women's rights as the rest of the world, and that much of that is attributable to the religion and the way religious rules are followed. I really don't understand why people are so intent on defending Islam. The fact is that the religion contains some pretty insidious ideologies. There is a pressure to have a politically correct "Islam is good, it's just been corrupted by a small minority" view, but that is rested on a faulty assumption - that all religions are good, equally healthy sets of ideas, and it is quite convincingly betrayed by evidence. Of course there are Muslims who have loose interpretations and many Muslims are good people (and I'm friends with many of them, etc etc). But all ideologies are not created equal. This one happens to have some pretty dangerous memes in it. This beheading story is not particularly important for how women are treated since its one crazy guy; what is worse is what is happening in western Pakistan where the Taliban have just been given the right to impose religious law. Mohammed himself had had 13 wives. Sets kind of a different example from Jesus or the Buddha.

There is no question that culture and religion are intertwined. Being misogynist and having crazy ideas about how women are valued in a place like India for example crosses all religions. Where people are poor and uneducated their culture has developed a mindset that Women are their Husband's and Family's property and this leads to things like honor killings. The fact that this is as true with poor Hindus in many places as it is for Muslims is the point I'm making. It isn't just an Islamic issue but one of the culture that had developed in large parts of the World. Education and economic development are the ways that these attitudes slowly change.I'm not trying to defend the whack jobs in Islam who like all religious extremists I hate with a passion. Unfortunately those whack jobs have a very loud voice and a very willing audience for their crap.

Sorry, but to suggest (which is how I read this sentence) that the level of misogyny is the same in Muslim countries as it is in Western countries, is ridiculous.

That wasn't my point at all. See above and I hope I've explained it a bit better.

Somebody already covered this but when it comes to this, Religion is the culture. I agree with you, in that I know people who practice watered down versions and when shown what is actually taught deny that it exists, much like say, a christian who continues to be a drunkard, but the fact is the watered down version is as worthy of death as anything else to the true believer.

There are more Muslims in the World who view things like my friend and the people at his Mosque do than the extremists that you are confusing with true Islam. There are more Muslims in Indonesia for example than any other country in the World and they aren't raging Taliban. A country like Turkey has 70 million Muslims in it.I guess my main point is that Women are treated like crap in a large swath of the World. A lot of that region is Islamic but not all of it and the general culture of that region is as much to blame as the form of Islam that is taught there since Women are also often treated in the same way by other religions. Also there are large parts of the Islamic World where Women aren't treated that same way.

[hblask 1]

I just have to say (and not necessarily in relation to this thread, it just made me think of it) FCP Bob is one of the most under-rated posters in these discussions. Even when I disagree with him, his ideas are well thought out and totally defensible.And I'm not just sucking up so that he won't ban me for that one thread in OT......

[vbnautilus 48]

There is no question that culture and religion are intertwined. Being misogynist and having crazy ideas about how women are valued in a place like India for example crosses all religions. Where people are poor and uneducated their culture has developed a mindset that Women are their Husband's and Family's property and this leads to things like honor killings. The fact that this is as true with poor Hindus in many places as it is for Muslims is the point I'm making. It isn't just an Islamic issue but one of the culture that had developed in large parts of the World. Education and economic development are the ways that these attitudes slowly change.I'm not trying to defend the whack jobs in Islam who like all religious extremists I hate with a passion. Unfortunately those whack jobs have a very loud voice and a very willing audience for their crap.

But my point is that it is not just the "whack jobs" and extremists in Islam who have this value. Across muslim countries the rights of women correlate pretty well with the extent to which the religion is incorporated as law (compare Saudi Arabia -> Turkey e.g.). In other words, this value is built in to the philosophy of the religion and one needn't be an extremist to absorb it. Add to that the fact that the religion has mechanisms within it to make it more likely that it is not secularized and you have a problem. No one thinks that Islam has a monopoly on treating women badly, but it does need to accept the responsibility for having that as a part of its value system. It is not a fringe extremist twist on the culture, it's in there.

[vbnautilus 48]

I just have to say (and not necessarily in relation to this thread, it just made me think of it) FCP Bob is one of the most under-rated posters in these discussions. Even when I disagree with him, his ideas are well thought out and totally defensible.And I'm not just sucking up so that he won't ban me for that one thread in OT......

I agree with this completely.