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The Gun Debate


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In the United States, there are appx. 290,000,000 firearms and as many people. There are an estimated 72,000,000 firearms owners. Contrary to what you see on Law and Order, the vast majority of states do not have a large, central "registry" that contains information on all gun owners. The United States has one of the highest per-capita incidences of gun deaths in the world (behind only a few other countries)In the United States, according to the Justice Department, the 2004 statistics show that 76% of all firearms related homicides were committed by African-Americans, who make up 13% of the overall population. To those who believe in firearms rights, what do you think should be done about "gun crime"?To those who believe that "all guns should be banned", what do you think that will accomplish in a nation that has 290,000,000 (two hundred and ninety million) firearms?To those who believe that firearms are a right, how far do you think that right goes?To those who believe that firearms are "bad", why do you believe that your own conceptions of what constitutes "good" and "bad" should be imposed on 72,000,000 people who are doing nothing wrong?To everyone- Do you believe that society should eliminate everyones rights in order to address the statistical anomaly who may abuse his rights to do something wrong?

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When the framers of the constitution included the right to bear arms, the world was obviously a very different place. Private firearms should be banned and punishable by 25 to life. Private citizens have no business carrying guns in todays world. The constitution needs to be amended.

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I fully support this debate continuing in this thread instead of the other one... it should've happened sooner. If I decide to continue the debate, it will be here. The other thread should be for news and discussion of the actual tragedy.

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When the framers of the constitution included the right to bear arms, the world was obviously a very different place. Private firearms should be banned and punishable by 25 to life. Private citizens have no business carrying guns in todays world. The constitution needs to be amended.
I think your forgetting why that part of the constitution was put into place.
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We all have a view on this. Mine personally the more rights the government takes from us the less we are a free country. They already have taken enough rights from us. To say its the guns fault is stupid. If someone wants to kill someone it dont matter if they have a gun or not they will find a way to kill someone. The gun does make it easier to kill but the problem is the people. The more people there is the more problems we will face with things like this. Guns dont kill people, people kill people not sure who wrote that but its true.

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Private citizens have no business carrying guns in todays world. The constitution needs to be amended.
Tell that to the people who defended their stores during the LA riots. Tell that to people who defended themselves when the cops abandoned them in NO. Tell that to people in rural communities when the nearest police protection is 30 minutes away. Tell that to the millions of people who defend themselves with firearms every year.
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We all have a view on this. Mine personally the more rights the government takes from us the less we are a free country. They already have taken enough rights from us. To say its the guns fault is stupid. If someone wants to kill someone it dont matter if they have a gun or not they will find a way to kill someone. The gun does make it easier to kill but the problem is the people. The more people there is the more problems we will face with things like this. Guns dont kill people, people kill people not sure who wrote that but its true.
AT LEAST WE AREN'T FUNDING TERRORISTS THROUGH NETELLER ANYMORE
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When the framers of the constitution included the right to bear arms, the world was obviously a very different place. Private firearms should be banned and punishable by 25 to life. Private citizens have no business carrying guns in todays world. The constitution needs to be amended.
So you're saying that the only people who should have firearms are the people who have "authority" over you?(Freud would have a lot to say about that)As an aside- I will mention that the basic idea of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms had nothing to do with duck hunting or shooting housebreakers. It had to do with preserving the ability of ordinary people to shoot at tyrants. You can argue that this ideal is outdated, however, I think history (and very recent history at that) would disagree.
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This call for gun control always follows this particular newsworthy type of shooting -- the angry person on a rage gunning down strangers. Yet this is a tiny percentage of total gun deaths.Remember when an airline pilot intentionally downed a commercial jet in the Atlantic a few years ago, killing everyone on board? In that one act he killed more people than all the "angry shooting sprees" in this country put together. Is there a call to ban planes? Of course not, because the incident is an anomaly. The exception should not drive the rule.But my main objection to gun control is a practical one: it can't and won't work, any more than any other prohibition in history has worked, and will have the same predictable negative effects as all other prohibitions.

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FACT..... let me say again, FACT.... If guns were illegal you would have less gun crime. I can't believe you are even going to try and argue against this.This was said in the other room. This makes me sick. The guy saying that if you make guns illegal you would have less gun crimes? What about making drugs illegal would we have less drug crimes this is to funny. ITs also a stupid comment. Its easier for me to get an illegal gun in this country then it is a gun that is registered. lol. Look at the gangs and the mob. Hell go to Kentucky when they have that big gun show down there you will learn a lot. It makes me sick to think there are people out there that thinks that if you outlaw guns this wouldnt happen its just stupid.

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It makes me sick to think there are people out there that thinks that if you outlaw guns this wouldnt happen its just stupid.
Look on the bright side.Their emotionally driven, irrational minds are the ones who make poker profitable. :club:
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FACT..... let me say again, FACT.... If guns were illegal you would have less gun crime. I can't believe you are even going to try and argue against this.This was said in the other room. This makes me sick. The guy saying that if you make guns illegal you would have less gun crimes? What about making drugs illegal would we have less drug crimes this is to funny. ITs also a stupid comment. Its easier for me to get an illegal gun in this country then it is a gun that is registered. lol. Look at the gangs and the mob. Hell go to Kentucky when they have that big gun show down there you will learn a lot. It makes me sick to think there are people out there that thinks that if you outlaw guns this wouldnt happen its just stupid.
Well said. Banning guns from citizens is a terrible idea, I own 4, and am not giving them up.
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My personal view is that I'd love to magically incinerate all handguns. Since that won't happen, I don't know what to say...there are too many guns to get rid of and it's too easy to purchase them illegally.

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My personal view is that I'd love to magically incinerate all handguns. Since that won't happen, I don't know what to say...there are too many guns to get rid of and it's too easy to purchase them illegally.
Just curious, you don't think he could have done this with a firearm other than a handgun? I don't see what getting rid of handguns does to prevent this situation, he could have done the same or worse damage with any type of gun.
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My personal view is that I'd love to magically incinerate all handguns. Since that won't happen, I don't know what to say...there are too many guns to get rid of and it's too easy to purchase them illegally.
QFT.We have to decide whether to base our policies on a magical world in which guns just disappear or whether we should base our policies on the real world in which criminals will continue to have guns. When answering that question, ask yourself: as a law abiding citizen, if someone gave you a gun to keep in your house (say you had to keep it for some reason), would the neighbors have to live in fear of you?Next question: knowing that criminals have guns, would you rather live in an area where a random selection of law-abiding citizens such as yourself have guns, or an area where nobody has guns and the criminals *KNOW* nobody has guns (e.g., London)?
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My personal view is that I'd love to magically incinerate all handguns. Since that won't happen, I don't know what to say...there are too many guns to get rid of and it's too easy to purchase them illegally.
All handguns should come equipped with mandatory child safety locks. The number of children who die each year in gun-related accidental deaths in the home is appalling.
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Just curious, you don't think he could have done this with a firearm other than a handgun? I don't see what getting rid of handguns does to prevent this situation, he could have done the same or worse damage with any type of gun.
You walk into one building, I'll walk into another. You bring two single chamber rifles and a pocket full of bullets, I'll bring two handguns and a pocket full of 10 round magazines.I bet I kill a lot more people than you.
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It makes me sick to think there are people out there that thinks that if you outlaw guns this wouldnt happen its just stupid.
I hope you arent reffering to me. I never said that, and I dont believe that outlawing guns would end all shootings. However, I do feel that outlawing guns would decrease shootings and gun related deaths.
Look on the bright side.Their emotionally driven, irrational minds are the ones who make poker profitable. :club:
Again, I hope you arent referring to me.
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If you're in favor of gun control your heart's in the right place. How could it not be, you don't want to see innocent people killed. The biggest problem I have with gun control is the word control. I don't like it and the gov't does a very bad job at it. If you make handguns or any guns illegal it's going to be very similar to the war on drugs, people will always find a way to do bad things, that's life.

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Next question: knowing that criminals have guns, would you rather live in an area where a random selection of law-abiding citizens such as yourself have guns, or an area where nobody has guns and the criminals *KNOW* nobody has guns (e.g., London)?
I would keep a gun in my house, because I know I would be careful to make 100% certain that it couldn't be touched by anyone but me in case of emergency.Frankly, I don't trust my neighbors to be as vigilant. I don't know the exact stats, but I do know for sure that personal handguns purchased for home security are far more likely to be used IN a crime (including negligence) as opposed to being used to PREVENT a crime.
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You walk into one building, I'll walk into another. You bring two single chamber rifles and a pocket full of bullets, I'll bring two handguns and a pocket full of 10 round magazines.I bet I kill a lot more people than you.
You walk into the building with your "bad" handgun, I'll stroll up a bell-tower with my "good" deer rifle. I bet I kill more people than you.
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I would keep a gun in my house, because I know I would be careful to make 100% certain that it couldn't be touched by anyone but me in case of emergency.
Just out of curiosity, why? What do you need it for? Hardly anyone in the UK keeps a gun for home security, and it seems to me that alarm systems, good policing, neighbourhood watch etc are more effective than a gun in that realm. Americans seem to feel it's totally necessary and I just don't understand why.
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If you're in favor of gun control your heart's in the right place. How could it not be, you don't want to see innocent people killed. The biggest problem I have with gun control is the word control. I don't like it and the gov't does a very bad job at it. If you make handguns or any guns illegal it's going to be very similar to the war on drugs, people will always find a way to do bad things, that's life.
the difference in your analogy is that one kills much much more then the other. In fact, the war on drugs is very much fueled by rampant gun use and it exascerbates the problems with crime associated with the war on drugs. Gun violence kills the owner more then it kills those that it is defending against in the case of home break ins and it also aids in the underworld crime. What need does someone other then a cop or member of the armed forces have for a glock or a baretta. I can easily see an argument to own guns for sport hunting, but owning a rifle for hunting is massivly different from owning a handgun. Taking the word control to task is silly because w/o controls there'd be no government and we'd be in chaos. To say that people will do bad things even with control, so there is no need for controls is a silly idea to infer because with gun control, the amount of violent crime would drop drastically
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I would keep a gun in my house, because I know I would be careful to make 100% certain that it couldn't be touched by anyone but me in case of emergency.Frankly, I don't trust my neighbors to be as vigilant. I don't know the exact stats, but I do know for sure that personal handguns purchased for home security are far more likely to be used IN a crime (including negligence) as opposed to being used to PREVENT a crime.
I've heard this statistic, too, and seen the arguments about it. There are many conflicting factors here.1) a child accidentally getting a gun and getting killed seems more tragic than two criminals squaring off and one of them getting killed2) it is practically impossible to separate out the statistics on criminals using guns on each other in their homes from innocents using guns in the home.3) much of the gun use in homes is drug-related or domestic violence related -- people who probably would've found a way to kill each other anyway.4) the "innocent victim" angle has a much larger emotional impact, and makes rational discussion difficult.5) I would be nervous sending my kid to go play at a house where I knew there was a gun unless I knew the parents very very well and knew that they had proper respect for firearms.6) Defensive uses of guns are nearly impossible to track and are not newsworthy. There was a story a few years ago about a crazed gunman entering a Denny's and opening fire. Several people were wounded, but the gunman was quickly killed because one of the patrons had a concealed carry permit. Such a story gets no attention in the national media because "no massacre happened" is not news. It is not clear how to compare events such as this to events such as the VA Tech story from today.
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