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I'm just sucking ass big time.sb brand newother player, fish(no, not me)Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Actuary is UTG+1 with Kd, Kc. 1 fold, MP1 calls, SB calls.Flop: (13 SB) Ah, 9h, 4h (3 players)SB bets, Actuary calls, MP1 calls.Turn: (8 BB) 8d (3 players)SB bets, Actuary calls, MP1 calls.River: (11 BB) 2s (3 players)SB bets, Actuary calls, MP1 calls.Final Pot: 14 BBDo I have to lay this down...on the turn?or, did I screw up by not raising the flop..then if he 3-bets, I fold the turn UI ?Isn't this wa/wb ? So I'm thinking, call it down, cheap as possible.I got on tilt and just paid off a flush raised on the turn and then I check/called the river..man..am I a dumbass.

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He probably has an A, and you don't even have the K :club: redraw. Probably raise the flop, and fold the turn UI to a 3-bet, like you said.

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I think anything he 3-bets you with on the flop and bets out on the turn has you drawing very very slim if not dead. If he 3-bets the flop, I fold the turn UI. Also, if he calls the raise, and it's checked to you on the turn, I bet/fold. Still haven't decided what to do if he calls then bets out the turn tho.

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Raise flop and call 3 bet because your getting the odds to draw to a single K for one more bet here.I would suggest folding UI on the turn if he's a pretty straightforward player.. Especially if the player behind you is still in, then you just gotta chuck em real fast...

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Raise flop and call 3 bet because your getting the odds to draw to a single K for one more bet here.
Really? How can that be? You're getting, what, something like 18-1, right? When you're drawing to a one outer? And could be drawing ultra thin (runner runner)? And could hit your gin card and STILL get redrawn on a very high percentage of the time? Bad reasoning.Ice
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[quibble]If the K :club: hits on the turn, you have 10 outs to beat the flush. OP is not drawing to a 1-outer on the flop, but a 1.3ish outer.[/quibble]

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[quibble]If the K :heart: hits on the turn, you have 10 outs to beat the flush. OP is not drawing to a 1-outer on the flop, but a 1.3ish outer.[/quibble]
King of hearts doesn't even count for a third of an out... But it doesn't even matter, because his reasoning is still gross.Ice
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I think you have to raise/call the flop. You gain more info on the cheap street than you will by calling down on 4th and 5th. If you were re-raised on the flop, if unimproved on the turn IMO you can fold knowing you saved a bet somewhere.

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Raise flop and call 3 bet because your getting the odds to draw to a single K for one more bet here.
You're getting 47:1? Not by my count.This is an easy fold to a 3-bet on the flop. You're getting 19:1 or so to call the 3rd bet on the flop and see the turn, but what are you looking for? You only have 1 out. Not 1.3, not a little more than 1. The extra little bit that is added by the Kh on the turn and then the 10 outs to fill up, is negated by the fact that the raiser could have AA (and then you're drawing to running kings), AK (and with perhaps the Kd redraw), AQ with Qd, or a smaller pocket pair with a diamond. None of those are sure bets but they counteract the little extra bit you get from counting the Kd as a partial out.Figure out if he has an A or better. If he does, fold. It's easy.
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this might've beeen the worst call down I've made since trying to actually learn how to paly LHE. It looks worse a day later.of course, its not as bad as the bet/call check/call I pulled 5 hands later when the 3rd heart hit and the "super passive fish" raised the turn to beat my TPTK. ( AJ )... lost 11 BB in 12 hands..left table, so ashamed.

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Here's a question.I would raise the flop and call a 3-bet.If SB bets turn, I would fold.If SB checks turn, I would check - correct? Or very bad? Hope for a King on the river for free...in LHE you're not gonna bluff two players, especially MP1 - he might put you on a flush and still call his A-6 or 10-9.

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Here's a question.I would raise the flop and call a 3-bet.If SB bets turn, I would fold.If SB checks turn, I would check - correct? Or very bad? Hope for a King on the river for free...in LHE you're not gonna bluff two players, especially MP1 - he might put you on a flush and still call his A-6 or 10-9.
I fail to see a question...looks like a statement...
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I would spew chips into a field that without a doubt contains at least one hand that has me beat, when I'm drawing either as thin as it gets to even have a chance or completely dead altogether.
That's not a good idea.
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Here's a question.I would raise the flop and call a 3-bet.If SB bets turn, I would fold.If SB checks turn, I would check - correct? Or very bad? Hope for a King on the river for free...in LHE you're not gonna bluff two players, especially MP1 - he might put you on a flush and still call his A-6 or 10-9.
I fail to see a question...looks like a statement...
There is a question mark in there...I know you can see it...right next to the word "correct".I'll elaborate - is that the correct play? To check after the SB checks?Or do you bet, hoping to represent a flush and hoping that anyone with an Ace folds, and anyone without calls?
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I would spew chips into a field that without a doubt contains at least one hand that has me beat, when I'm drawing either as thin as it gets to even have a chance or completely dead altogether.
That's not a good idea.
Was that necessary?
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Raise flop and call 3 bet because your getting the odds to draw to a single K for one more bet here.
You're getting 47:1? Not by my count.This is an easy fold to a 3-bet on the flop.
no, its an easy call
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if you raise, one of a few things happen:1. player behind you folds, SB folds. best case scenario, extremely rare.2. player behind you folds, SB calls. not bad.--> a) he checks the turn. you bet? i hope you are. if you raised the flop for a free card, that was terrible, because you're drawing to 1 out or 2 at best, probably. so, you're obligated to bet to protect your hand or to possibly make him lay down his hand.--> B) he pulls a stop-and-go and bets the turn. what do you do?3. player behind you folds, SB three-bets. uh oh.--> a) we fold. okay.--> B) we call and check/fold the turn UI. not so bad.4. player behind you calls two cold.--> a) SB calls. great, you're in a sticky situation where if you're ahead, you're really not that far ahead in the least bit, and if you're behind, you're drawing to one out. wonderful. are we then betting the turn if checked to, to protect our hand, or are we checking and giving the player behind us a free card or allowing him the chance to bet?--> B) SB three-bets. yeah, you should be folding here.5. player behind you THREE-BETS into two pre-flop cappers. well, hello.--> a) SB calls two more cold. you should... fold.--> B) SB CAPS. you should... fold in a heartbeat.almost ALL of these situations suck. you're wasting bets for "information" that you already have: if by some miracle you're ahead, you're barely ahead. if you're not, you're drawing to one out or possibly running outs if MP1/SB has a made flush already.call me weak/tight, but i don't see folding on the flop right away as terrible. there are two problems with that, though:1. the pot is huge. even if you win this hand 1 out of 14 times, you win money.2. you open yourself to really getting run over if people notice that you fold for just one bet on a scary flop after capping it pre-flop.so, i think calling the flop bet isn't terrible, as long as you plan to fold to any raise behind you or to a turn bet unimproved.raising might seem correct since we're supposed to play aggressively and all, but i think it's really chip spewing. you know you're beat here. really. even if SB has Q-Q, his betting almost always means he has the Qh, which means he has a full 11 outs to overtake you, twice. add in MP1 behind you, who could easily have an ace or a pair with/without a flush draw of his own, so you're either way behind to one out, or he has four or five outs aside from the flush draw to overtake you as well.reverse implied odds, people.you're paying off a better hand by showdown much more than a worse hand is paying you off.my conclusion: call one bet, fold to any raise behind you, and check/fold the turn unimproved.aseem

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I would spew chips into a field that without a doubt contains at least one hand that has me beat, when I'm drawing either as thin as it gets to even have a chance or completely dead altogether.
That's not a good idea.
Was that necessary?
Oh geez, lighten up, Francis.
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Raise flop and call 3 bet because your getting the odds to draw to a single K for one more bet here.
You're getting 47:1? Not by my count.This is an easy fold to a 3-bet on the flop.
no, its an easy call
What is your reasoning? Maybe I'm wrong. I don't think so, though.
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I would spew chips into a field that without a doubt contains at least one hand that has me beat, when I'm drawing either as thin as it gets to even have a chance or completely dead altogether.
That's not a good idea.
Was that necessary?
Oh geez, lighten up, Francis.
Call me names...call my mother names...burn my house down...just don't misquote me.'cause I'll crap in your slippers.
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What I meant, shpaget, was that I was just messing with you. Sheesh.Crap in my slippers and I'll break your teeth.

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