CobaltBlue 662 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 The Venetian 5/10 NLHE (9-handed)Hero $800SB $1150Hero is MP2 w/ . Hero posts first hand at table...no reads.Pre-flop:3 folds, Hero checks, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB checksFlop ($40): (4 players)SB bets $25, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 foldTurn ($90): (2 players)SB bets $60, Hero callsRiver ($210): (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $90, SB raises to $290, Hero ?After some discussion, I'll open up the contest. Link to post Share on other sites
quadaces 0 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Baring some unremarkable read I think this is an easy call. Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I'll make my guess later but I'd expect air to barrel this card rather than check/raise it. For two reasons:1) You are going to have a hard time calling with 57/77/99, which are hands you very reasonably can show up with here.2) You are going to check back the most likely hands in your range, meaning he's going to miss a lot of value by not betting river.However to counter that, he may think you'd call twice with a flush draw and fire river, especially if he's not a great player (which most live players aren't). Link to post Share on other sites
Solaces 0 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Maybe im thinking about this on a basic level, but after the raise you cant beat any legitimate hand that he has there. If he has a 6 your most likely beaten, he might have 8/8 or 5/5, ruling out QQ for now. If im sitting in his shoes, he might think that you had missed diamonds, but if thats the case he has already induced you to bluff he doesnt have to pop it up that big. Combined with the fact that you have no read on him, i lean towards fold here. Link to post Share on other sites
quadaces 0 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Maybe im thinking about this on a basic level, but after the raise you cant beat any legitimate hand that he has there. If he has a 6 your most likely beaten, he might have 8/8 or 5/5, ruling out QQ for now. If im sitting in his shoes, he might think that you had missed diamonds, but if thats the case he has already induced you to bluff he doesnt have to pop it up that big. Combined with the fact that you have no read on him, i lean towards fold here. I think its the opposite. If you don't have a read on him I think you need to call. Link to post Share on other sites
Hector Cerif 0 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 For getting basically even money you might as well call.Being as this is the first hand and you have no idea what kind of a player sb is, you could figure there is at least a 50/50 chance he's a complete idiot. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I'm definitely flatting there since it's the first hand at the table. He donked out medium bets into an unknown twice after just completing...the turn donk I find most interesting b/c I think the bet sizing for a live game is crappy, I think it's a boat or a draw, not a straight or even trips w/ a kicker b/c that board is funky for a moderately strong hand.The river check raise is I think overly fancy against an unknown and to me I think he was fancy the whole time and is still trying to bully you off his non completed draw and you did a good job of inspiring that action w/ your smallish bet. At best I think kq qj dd and you can flat it b/c I don't think he's calling w/ a hand you beat and your river bet did it's job of getting you more value. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I would call here. I don't think people check/raise the river for value with any reasonable frequency.If he's c/r for value, I think he's basically confined to a boat or a straight, but mostly a boat. If he had a worse 6 I think he'd be more inclined to just bet seeing as you should have a reasonably strong hand after calling two streets in what was origanaly a 4-way pot. Given that there were two diamonds on the flop, and a co-ordinated turn, I think he can get to the river with a lot of draws that missed like pocket 7s/57/89 type middle connected hands. Your small river bet is a big factor in this imo. My view here is that he bet two streets with either a weak made hand(54s etc.) or a draw, so his natural instinct is too check the river. But when you bet $90 into $210, he can't resist making a - relatively - cheap bluff with most of his non value raising range. Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 It's an interesting spot because I think this can equally be villain thinking:- I have a monster and he has a missed flush draw so I'll check it to him and hope he bluffs or- I have A high and it's probably good .... oh, shit he's betting at it and I might not have the best hand, lets bluff him off what's probably a pretty moderate holdingGiven all that I call. I half expect him turn up 67 for the chop. Link to post Share on other sites
Hector Cerif 0 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 67 i feel would call here Link to post Share on other sites
AcesUp46 0 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I would call here. I don't think people check/raise the river for value with any reasonable frequency.If he's c/r for value, I think he's basically confined to a boat or a straight, but mostly a boat. If he had a worse 6 I think he'd be more inclined to just bet seeing as you should have a reasonably strong hand after calling two streets in what was origanaly a 4-way pot. Given that there were two diamonds on the flop, and a co-ordinated turn, I think he can get to the river with a lot of draws that missed like pocket 7s/57/89 type middle connected hands. Your small river bet is a big factor in this imo. My view here is that he bet two streets with either a weak made hand(54s etc.) or a draw, so his natural instinct is too check the river. But when you bet $90 into $210, he can't resist making a - relatively - cheap bluff with most of his non value raising range.^^ I agree with this. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 For getting basically even money you might as well call.Being as this is the first hand and you have no idea what kind of a player sb is, you could figure there is at least a 50/50 chance he's a complete idiot. Link to post Share on other sites
JoblessBast 0 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I was in basically this exact same spot at a 5/5NL game a few sessions ago. Flopped trips in position with 89 in a limped pot against the big blind, flatted the flop and turn, bet the river and got check-raised.I ended up folding and the guy didn't show, but after watching some more I decided that I probably should have called. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Do I win the $5?Fwiw, though, betting small is what makes it pretty tough to get away from this hand, as it's now soooo open that he's bluff raising. I call, but I also can't fold big hands, ever. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 Do I win the $5?Edit: People named Mark, Zach, Matt, and Mike are exempt from the contest. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 People named Mark, Zach, and Matt are exempt from the contest.That sucks cause I could really use the $5 too...fwiw, I only vaguely remember discussing this hand with you and don't remember anything about the outcome. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I must have been drunk, cuz I don't remember it at all. Link to post Share on other sites
Naked_Cowboy 0 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 People named Mark, Zach, and Matt are exempt from the contest.jackpot Link to post Share on other sites
Quacktastic 106 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Buy in full next time. Link to post Share on other sites
IQCrash 1 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 If he's got a strong hand and he put you on a draw, then checking the river gives you the opportunity to try and bluff at the pot since he thinks it's unlikely he'll get any more value from you by leading out.If he was on the draw himself, say a Qx diamond draw, or a straight draw himself that perhaps paired the 8, I would think he'd want to go for a cheap showdown here and just call your bet.Then again, your weak bet on the river could have induced a bluff from him, and he went from trying to get to a cheap showdown to thinking he could just blow you off the hand completely.Against an unknown with no reads, I don't think I can find a fold here - and if I lose, best I can do is make a note of what he check raised me with on the river, and hope he sticks around long enough for me to exploit it should the situation comes up again. Link to post Share on other sites
whatgreatis 0 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Your getting roughly 3-1 on the river to call but I don't think this raise size is particularly bluffy. I don't see a lot of live players make check/raise river bluffs either. I feel pretty weak tight, but I'm making a fold here.Btw, it would help to know if this was a younger guy, older guy, women, how they dressed, ect.. While I'd have to use generalizations for information, it's better than no info at all. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 jackpotFMP Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Btw, it would help to know if this was a younger guy, older guy, women, how they dressed, ect.. While I'd have to use generalizations for information, it's better than no info at all.Yeah, I intended to include this. SB was a younger guy (like didn't even look 21) with glasses. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Yeah, I intended to include this. SB was a younger guy (like didn't even look 21) with glasses.I love live poker generalizations.Young guy means lag, but glasses mean conservative. He's probably a cautious but aggressive player.I'm drunk though, eating Mcdonald's fries with ranch dressing and honey, and wearing a hardhat (construction helmet) and sunglasses at 4 am, so maybe I'm mistaken. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Edit: People named Mark, Zach, Matt, and Mike are exempt from the contest.Damnit. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now