On Being Human

[screech 0]

Maybe a lot of athesiests will go with the believers on this one. Maybe not.What seperates man from other animals (namely the smart human-lookalikes like chimps)? For those that say because god created us, why are we 99.99% the same on the DNA level? For those that say we are 99.99% the same on the DNA level, why do we feel/why are we, so superior?On a related note, what seperates chimps from ants? Chimps are obviously smarter, can create tools, and no doubt feel like they are superiour to ants, but does that put them on a higher pedastool in gods eyes? If not, then is there any reason that we're so special, besides the fact that the bible says so?

[speedz99 145]

Chimps are MUCH closer to us than ants are to them. That's an obvious statement to most of us...but you'd be surprised about the arguments we might get about that.Chimps have a soul just as much as we do. Anyone who has spent any time around them knows that they are completely self-aware, feel strong emotions, etc.Obviously our brains are more evolved than theirs...but to say that we are on a much higher level than them is nothing more than arrogance. I consider it similar to religious people that refused to believe that the Earth is not the center of the Universe. And let's all be honest...if this was hundreds of years ago the religious people here would be arguing with us about that.

[screech 0]

Chimps are MUCH closer to us than ants are to them. That's an obvious statement to most of us...but you'd be surprised about the arguments we might get about that.Chimps have a soul just as much as we do. Anyone who has spent any time around them knows that they are completely self-aware, feel strong emotions, etc.Obviously our brains are more evolved than theirs...but to say that we are on a much higher level than them is nothing more than arrogance. I consider it similar to religious people that refused to believe that the Earth is not the center of the Universe. And let's all be honest...if this was hundreds of years ago the religious people here would be arguing with us about that.

Way to chop off their legs before they get out of the gate.

[speedz99 145]

Way to chop off their legs before they get out of the gate.

Haha...sorry. I just had this discussion with my girlfriend. She's an interesting mix of somewhat religious but an anthropologist/biologist...and I'm an apatheistic uber-skeptic.Funny you brought this exact topic up the next day.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

In my opinion, what separates us from other animals is our intelligence. It is difficult to define exactly what intelligence in this sense is, but I would argue that there is some sort of "intelligence" (as we will call it) which, when it increases, causes self awareness and consciousness and the ability to reason to appear. I would argue that there is no "line" that one crosses where one species becomes conscious and one isn't. Considering the example of chimps, they are comparable in intelligence (again, whatever that means) to babies and toddlers, etc. So, chimps, for our purposes and according to my argument, are as self aware and conscious as three year olds (or whatever the exact conversion is). So, the question is what happens after the age of three (or whatever) that gives humans the ability to reason and be "superior." I would argue that it is the continued development of the higher brain functions. As we mature, our higher level cognition functions become stronger and stronger (both through experience and through physical/biological growth of the brain). In a related subject, I believe that if computers become smart enough, they too will be self aware and have consciousness and believe that they have "souls" or whatever. Currently, our most advanced computers aren't even as smart as insects (really, it's a difficult if not impossible line to define, but let's just draw it at insects for the sake of illustration). So, in conclusion, there is nothing that makes us "superior" except the fact that we are much, much smarter. I guess I am arguing against a sort of jump that a species takes in its evolutionary journey and I am arguing against a soul that brings with it self awareness.

[speedz99 145]

My favorite course in college was about comparing the human mind to a computer (a philosophy course).The religious people in the class went absolutely nuts on a weekly basis because they couldn't prove that humans are different from computers except by saying "WE JUST ARE!" It came down to how you define the soul (which in actuality doesn't exist...but whatever).Anyways, computers are already much "smarter" than us. Who's to say some aren't self aware already, but choose not to communicate that to us?

[crowTrobot 2]

throughout the animal kingdom intelligence is directly correlated to brain size. our brains are the biggerest.

[screech 0]

throughout the animal kingdom intelligence is directly correlated to brain size. our brains are the biggerest.

I thought whales had the biggest brains. We just have bigger ones compared to our size.

[Petoria 0]

My favorite course in college was about comparing the human mind to a computer (a philosophy course).The religious people in the class went absolutely nuts on a weekly basis because they couldn't prove that humans are different from computers except by saying "WE JUST ARE!" It came down to how you define the soul (which in actuality doesn't exist...but whatever).Anyways, computers are already much "smarter" than us. Who's to say some aren't self aware already, but choose not to communicate that to us?

Wake up dude, they already have.

[crowTrobot 2]

I thought whales had the biggest brains. We just have bigger ones compared to our size.

yeah that's what i meant, thanks for clarifying. brain size in relation to body mass correlates to intelligence. in animals with a large brain/size ratio (like humans) a larger part of the brain isn't tied up with mechanics and is free to process information.

Anyways, computers are already much "smarter" than us. Who's to say some aren't self aware already, but choose not to communicate that to us?

it may happen someday, but current computers aren't close to catching up with the overall processing power of the human brain. obviously they are exponentially faster at crunching numbers and can be specialized to be much smarter at specific tasks. but as far as overall comprehensive processing of anything abstract they are still at a pretty rudimentary level compared to our brains. at least for now we are still smarter

[Canada 0]

at least for now we are still smarter

I beg to differ:

• Loismustdie
• Mattnxtc
• JFarrell20

I rest my case

[timwakefield 68]

OP, the thing that separates man from chimps or man from dogs is that we are different species. We're all animals, and we're not better than a dog.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

OP, the thing that separates man from chimps or man from dogs is that we are different species. We're all animals, and we're not better than a dog.

I disagree based on my personal philosophy (which mirrors in some ways a Hegel/Nietzsche system of thought).I would argue that we are more valuable than dogs or monkeys or chimps etc because we, with our amazing intelligence, are able to create works of art, music, literature, science, etc that stand out like gems against the background meaninglessness of the rest of the universe. I believe that these are the instances where we break free of the chains of our temporary lives and create something that is immortal. We create something that has true intrinsic value, as compared to everything else in our earth which only has the value that we place upon it.Isn't philosophy fun? (though not as much fun as physics or math, obviously)

[timwakefield 68]

I would argue that we are more valuable than dogs or monkeys or chimps etc because we, with our amazing intelligence, are able to create works of art, music, literature, science, etc that stand out like gems against the background meaninglessness of the rest of the universe. I believe that these are the instances where we break free of the chains of our temporary lives and create something that is immortal. We create something that has true intrinsic value, as compared to everything else in our earth which only has the value that we place upon it.Isn't philosophy fun? (though not as much fun as physics or math, obviously)

I would argue that nature itself is intrinsically beautiful, and that a salamander hanging out with all his salamander friends is equally as "immortal" as a Van Gogh painting.

[screech 0]

I disagree based on my personal philosophy (which mirrors in some ways a Hegel/Nietzsche system of thought).I would argue that we are more valuable than dogs or monkeys or chimps etc because we, with our amazing intelligence, are able to create works of art, music, literature, science, etc that stand out like gems against the background meaninglessness of the rest of the universe. I believe that these are the instances where we break free of the chains of our temporary lives and create something that is immortal. We create something that has true intrinsic value, as compared to everything else in our earth which only has the value that we place upon it.Isn't philosophy fun? (though not as much fun as physics or math, obviously)

What about the school of thought that says although our amazing intelligence allows us to create pretty little meaningless things we enjoy and give value to because of our silly little egos, our complete lack of intelligence when it comes to using our intelligence causes us to act like plague on this earth?

[mrdannyg 274]

I disagree based on my personal philosophy (which mirrors in some ways a Hegel/Nietzsche system of thought).I would argue that we are more valuable than dogs or monkeys or chimps etc because we, with our amazing intelligence, are able to create works of art, music, literature, science, etc that stand out like gems against the background meaninglessness of the rest of the universe. I believe that these are the instances where we break free of the chains of our temporary lives and create something that is immortal. We create something that has true intrinsic value, as compared to everything else in our earth which only has the value that we place upon it.Isn't philosophy fun? (though not as much fun as physics or math, obviously)

Maybe dogs just think all art comes in tightly-coiled rolls on a green canvas.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I would argue that nature itself is intrinsically beautiful, and that a salamander hanging out with all his salamander friends is equally as "immortal" as a Van Gogh painting.

What about the school of thought that says although our amazing intelligence allows us to create pretty little meaningless things we enjoy and give value to because of our silly little egos, our complete lack of intelligence when it comes to using our intelligence causes us to act like plague on this earth?

Maybe dogs just think all art comes in tightly-coiled rolls on a green canvas.

It's philosophy, there are no right or wrong answers. That's why it so much fun.

[crowTrobot 2]

Maybe dogs just think all art comes in tightly-coiled rolls on a green canvas.

maybe mentally advanced aliens would think beethoven's 9th sounds like dog poop.i doubt it.

[SilentSnow 1]

It's philosophy, there are no right or wrong answers. That's why it so much fun.

but that is a philosophical argument also. it is impossible for there to be literally no distinction between right and wrong answers, because that would imply that the world is entirely unknowable and meaningless. if someone does insist that no distinction can be made, punch them until they change their mind.* i guarantee you that this is one eminently winnable philosophical argument. there are essentially right and wrong(but not entirely certain) answers to a lot of questions, but humans arent very good at finding out what they are.* it is a little known fact that the phrase "knock some sense into them" originated from dealing with stubbornly nihilistic greek philosophers.

[Jerry_Lundegaard 0]

Animals and other forms of life are shaped by nature to fit in a certain niche -- they must do certain things better than other species that compete for the same resources or their species will not survive. Many animals have obvious advantages over us in terms of speed, strengh, size, sight, sense of smell, ect. They use these abilties to survive. Our particular advantage is our reasoning ability AND the physical means to make and use advanced tools. (Our hands) Due to our egocentric nature, we like to think our advantage sets us apart from the other animals, but I dont see it that way. Some animals are fast, some are strong, we think good. End of story.

[screech 0]

HOLY ****!I just went over to thatvideosite.com, and they have an awesome short clip that ties nicely into this thread.Enjoy!

[Loismustdie 0]

HOLY ****!I just went over to thatvideosite.com, and they have an awesome short clip that ties nicely into this thread.Enjoy!

Hey, Screech, just post the whole PM I sent you instead of just a piece in a quote.

[screech 0]

Hey, Screech, just post the whole PM I sent you instead of just a piece in a quote.

Sure:

Actually, what you just described is a conscience, and it's what should seperate us from the monkeys you are so fond of. The moral code, for the most part is already there. When we do bad things, we tend to hide it, we don't even need to be told to do that- a child knows when it's time to hide, when he is doing wrong, to the point that some children when they pee the bed will get up, get changed, and hide the bedding. We are, in a manner of speaking, better then the monkeys- in a fight, we would whoop there ***. In a war of words, intellect, we win. And even monkeys have there rules that they live by, but not nearly as self aware as ours. Civilization has changed since the Old Testament yet people naturally are resistant to change. How do you explain that? How do you explain that it is no longer acceptable to have 200 wives? How do you explain that slavery is no longer accepted?(I mean by the civilized free world?) Whether or not you want to give a supreme being the credit a belief in one sparks these types of changes, religion or the radical religous rise up and fight. I would agree that sometimes the fight is wrong, especially with some of the current issues. However, when a person like Pat Buchanan states that Homosexuality has been, throughout history a starting point for the decline of a body of people, it's not like he is making this **** up. He is right, it's just we have reached a point to where it's unacceptable to say what is right and good and godly, mostly because the messangers, such as Pat Buchanan are idiots and borderline lunatics. How better to make sure the message from God is ignored then to have Pat Buchanan say it? Satan is genius.

Feel free to quote anything I say whenever I want. I don't give a ****. I have a good one - "Lois is batshit crazy".

[Loismustdie 0]

Sure:Feel free to quote anything I say whenever I want. I don't give a ****. I have a good one - "Lois is batshit crazy".

When I state something that you cannot refute the answer is always that I am crazy. Why do you think that is?

[hotbacon 0]

Sure:Feel free to quote anything I say whenever I want. I don't give a ****. I have a good one - "Lois is batshit crazy".

You were kind. I definitely would have included "Satan is genius" in there somewhere.