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Obama...worst Thing For America In A Long Time?


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Like it or not, the recent controversy has once again dug up the festering corpse that is racism in America. It just won't die.This now racially charged election brings about fear and anger and resentment. And if things continue to go in a bad direction we could potentially see over reactions that could rival those of the 60's or Rodney King. There is still a lot of bitterness out there, on both sides.All the speeches and hopes of the end of racism, the recent racist preacher exposing, Obama's wife's comments, all the reactions and criticisms to it all (from all races), has only brought about more of it. It's forcing everyone to revisit the whole ugly issue and re examine their own beliefs and upbringing. Resentment and dismay is creeping into the voters psyche and I contend that it has the beginnings of erupting into something much worse. What has been exposed is that there is still seems to be a very deep and angry racial under current in this country on both sides, and the recent controversy is potentially bringing it once again to a boiling point. Consider this...and apologies for sounding alarmist. This is just an opinion. But...If Obama loses the election, there will be large amounts of criticism blaming the loss soley on race, which will only make a charged atmosphere worse. Many of the innocent will feel resentful of that criticism and become even angrier. This could start the country down a slippery slope or racial polarization, one that if sparked the right way by the right set of cicumstances could ignite the wrong groups to act out violently. Worse yet, if Obama wins and (God forbid) some red neck takes a shot at him (or if this were to happen before the election)....oh man. Don't think I can't happen and pray that it doesn't. Most don't want to talk about this stuff, but it's out there.I just think this whole thing is teetering on the brink of serious racial ugliness and I hope and pray we are beyond the point of acting irrationally. I lived thru the 60's riots, I was in Detroit as a small boy watching tanks roll down the streets as half the city burned. And we have all seen the Rodney King riots and madness. I know no one wants to go back to those times.Or perhaps this country needs this issue's once again drug out of the closet and scraped open and bled out once and for all, come hell or high water?Perhaps not all my points were not totally clear or valid, and perhaps I am over reacting. Maybe we will all come to grips with clear heads, have a kumbaya moment and bury this issue once and for all?

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you're aware that that he just gave perhaps the most honest and insightful speech from the history of US political leaders (that is, not counting dr. king, et al) about race, right? also, should i interpret what you're saying to mean that we should never have a black man run for president, because it runs the risk of making explicit racial issues that are sometimes taboo in political circles?STOP SAYING SILLY STUFF WITHOUT HAVING ME AROUND FOR MARTINIS :club:

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Anyway, lets talk about double standards..........McCain accepts Hagee's endorsement (whoo hoo!): > Wednesday, February 27, 2008 © 2008 Reuters "I'm very honored by Pastor John Hagee's endorsement today," McCain said at a news conference. "He has been the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement in many areas, but especially, most especially, his close ties and advocacy for the freedom and independence of the state of Israel." Hagee, standing beside the candidate, said he admired McCain's pro-Israel stance, commitment to nominate conservative judges and opposition to abortion. "Victory is within our grasp because John McCain knows it's never wrong to do the right thing," Hagee said. www.newsmax.com/insidecove.../76232.html--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hagee on Hurricane Katrina "All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06] Hagee on Islamic Beliefs Fresh Air host Terry Gross asked if Hagee believed that "all Muslims have a mandate to kill Christians and Jews," to which Hagee replied, "Well, the Quran teaches that. Yes, it teaches that very clearly." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06] Hagee on African-Americans The San Antonio Express-News reported that Hagee was going to "meet with black religious leaders privately at an unspecified future date to discuss comments he made in his newsletter about a 'slave sale,' an East Side minister said Wednesday." The Express-News reported: "Hagee, pastor of the 16,000-member Cornerstone Church, last week had announced a 'slave sale' to raise funds for high school seniors in his church bulletin, 'The Cluster.' "The item was introduced with the sentence 'Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone" and ended with "Make plans to come and go home with a slave." [san Antonio Express-News 3/7/96] Hagee on Catholicism "Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews." [Jerusalem Countdown by John Hagee] Hagee on Women "Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist." [God's Profits: Faith, Fraud and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters, Sarah Posner] "[T]he feminist movement today is throwing off authority in rebellion against God's pattern for the family." ["Bible Positions on Political Issues," John Hagee] Hagee on LGBT Americans "The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]

McCain says he never sought Hagee's endorsement? That's a lie, too. But you don't seem to mind.QUOTEIn an interview that will appear in this Sunday's New York Times Magazine, controversial televangelist Rev. John Hagee declares, "It's true that [John]McCain's campaign sought my endorsement." McCain has attempted to distance himself from some of Hagee's views, much as Barack Obama is doing in relation to Rev. Jeremiah Wright. But unlike McCain, Obama has not stood on stage with Wright and accepted his accolades this year.
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you're aware that that he just gave perhaps the most honest and insightful speech from the history of US political leaders (that is, not counting dr. king, et al) about race, right? also, should i interpret what you're saying to mean that we should never have a black man run for president, because it runs the risk of making explicit racial issues that are sometimes taboo in political circles?STOP SAYING SILLY STUFF WITHOUT HAVING ME AROUND FOR MARTINIS :ts
DIE!!!I guess what prompted this rant was there was a highly charged conversation around here today, with mixed races mind you, and it got heated. I mean, i could feel the older folks fighting back the urge to really speak their minds in a non "P C at work" way.I've also listened to a few interviews and excerpts on various media (CNN, FOX, NBC, etc.) showcasing some high profile folks on both sides of this issue and it is so obvious that this is a very emotionally charged issue. Should a black man (or woman Jamie, Sheesh!) be allowed to run? Obviously. But Obama seemed like the true departure from the racial norm of the past. this guy was touted as the real deal, an untainted, unbiased, un influenced by race creed or color kind of guy...and now there is doubt. lots of it. And it's going to make some folks un happy. There are nut jobs on both sides of the races and I just hope, based on again what I may be seeing as an over reaction, but I do see the potential for the wrong things to be said to the right people and all hell breaking lose. I saddens me that this issue exists at all. It truly does. But there is no denying that it does exist. And I do think that any black man running for office will be met with this issue, now and for the foreseeable future. I also contend however that this country is slowing becoming a nation of less and less 'race'. I mean, what will be a 'minority' consist of exactly in 40 years? I think there really won't be one because I think by then so many will have cross bred that this nation will be made up of everyone else, therefore we'll all sorta be the same thing, no?Perhaps at some point, years down the road, when this nation is made up of that fully blended race component will it seem more palatable/possible for many to accept a person of color to run and win, without race being the most controversial part of the issue.But I don't think we are there yet, no. Sadly, no.And speaking of a major component, I still like Grey Goose bitch! :club:
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I get what you're saying. I've done a lot of reading of 1960s history (sorry for calling it "history" -- I was only alive for the last month of that decade!), including speeches and letters of both King and Malcolm X. Also, Obama got Secret Service protection earlier than any other candidate since they started getting it (which was in the wake of RFK's assassination), precisely because they feared he was a target.We DO need to have an honest conversation about race. We are capable of moving beyond race, but not until we talk about it. Unfortunately, we're just going to have to tread some unmapped territory here, with a black candidate. Some of it likely will be ugly, but as long as we can stay away from assassinations, I think we'll get through it without the worst of the 60s recurring. You use a good analogy in "bleeding it out" -- race relations are like a wound that gets infected regularly. Cleaning it out can hurt like a mofo, but every time we do clean it out, it gets a little closer to healing.But we'll never get to the point where a minority can run without race being an issue, until we've had a minority run where race is the KEY issue. It's not just going to evaporate, at least not until we deal with it.As long as he's not assassinated, I think Obama could be the BEST thing for the country in a long time.

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DIE!!!I guess what prompted this rant was there was a highly charged conversation around here today, with mixed races mind you, and it got heated. I mean, i could feel the older folks fighting back the urge to really speak their minds in a non "P C at work" way.I've also listened to a few interviews and excerpts on various media (CNN, FOX, NBC, etc.) showcasing some high profile folks on both sides of this issue and it is so obvious that this is a very emotionally charged issue.
absolutely, which is precisely why we need to talk about it. for some reason, the US history of race has gone into some sort of silent room where it just festers and comes out in odd, overemotional moments. langston hughes wrote a poem about it, "raisin in the sun." it's pretty much right. :ts
Should a black man (or woman Jamie, Sheesh!) be allowed to run? Obviously. But Obama seemed like the true departure from the racial norm of the past. this guy was touted as the real deal, an untainted, unbiased, un influenced by race creed or color kind of guy...and now there is doubt. lots of it. And it's going to make some folks un happy. There are nut jobs on both sides of the races and I just hope, based on again what I may be seeing as an over reaction, but I do see the potential for the wrong things to be said to the right people and all hell breaking lose.
**** the media. seriously. they're all ****ing retards. they don't know how to talk about complicated issues anymore without reducing them to flashy graphics, polls with yes or no answers, and without annihilating any sense of grey that might remain in the american political mind. the media oversimplified this "issue," just like they ruin everything else. obama's speech in response to the issue was full of nuance, and i'm sure mccain's response to anything similar regarding hagge would be similarly nuanced. i mean, i'd hope so.
I saddens me that this issue exists at all. It truly does. But there is no denying that it does exist. And I do think that any black man running for office will be met with this issue, now and for the foreseeable future. I also contend however that this country is slowing becoming a nation of less and less 'race'. I mean, what will be a 'minority' consist of exactly in 40 years? I think there really won't be one because I think by then so many will have cross bred that this nation will be made up of everyone else, therefore we'll all sorta be the same thing, no?Perhaps at some point, years down the road, when this nation is made up of that fully blended race component will it seem more palatable/possible for many to accept a person of color to run and win, without race being the most controversial part of the issue.But I don't think we are there yet, no. Sadly, no.And speaking of a major component, I still like Grey Goose bitch! :club:
we have a weird understanding of race in the US. i don't get it--this whole "melting pot, **** each other till no discernible difference race exists anymore" sort of thing. i have no problem with people being different from one another, and i think that difference should be celebrated without mushing it all together until it doesn't exist anymore. i HOPE that "minorities" exist in 40 years, but i also HOPE white people exist, and all sorts of interracial couples, and gays and lesbians and all sorts of stuff. i think they're all awesome, and interesting, and i'm pretty sure that they'd all prefer chopin vodka to grey goose.
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I saddens me that this issue exists at all. It truly does. But there is no denying that it does exist. And I do think that any black man running for office will be met with this issue, now and for the foreseeable future.
how about making a comment saying "Obama worst Thing For America In A Long Time?" and not responding to Hagee's comments.Wait nevermind.
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absolutely, which is precisely why we need to talk about it. for some reason, the US history of race has gone into some sort of silent room where it just festers and comes out in odd, overemotional moments. langston hughes wrote a poem about it, "raisin in the sun." it's pretty much right. :ts**** the media. seriously. they're all ****ing retards. they don't know how to talk about complicated issues anymore without reducing them to flashy graphics, polls with yes or no answers, and without annihilating any sense of grey that might remain in the american political mind. the media oversimplified this "issue," just like they ruin everything else. obama's speech in response to the issue was full of nuance, and i'm sure mccain's response to anything similar regarding hagge would be similarly nuanced. i mean, i'd hope so.we have a weird understanding of race in the US. i don't get it--this whole "melting pot, **** each other till no discernible difference race exists anymore" sort of thing. i have no problem with people being different from one another, and i think that difference should be celebrated without mushing it all together until it doesn't exist anymore. i HOPE that "minorities" exist in 40 years, but i also HOPE white people exist, and all sorts of interracial couples, and gays and lesbians and all sorts of stuff. i think they're all awesome, and interesting, and i'm pretty sure that they'd all prefer chopin vodka to grey goose.
The melting pot is coming, like it or not dude. But yeah, I agree that once this happens we lose ourselves as a unique society, if it comes to fruition. Kinda scary....and sad.and oooooooo.... forgot about Chopin. Damn, that is good stuff. Ok, I'll give ya that one, but you're still ugly.
how about making a comment saying "Obama worst Thing For America In A Long Time?" and not responding to Hagee's comments.Wait nevermind.
Haggee? Isn't that some sort of Scottish Organ Meat pie? :club: Obviously the title of this thread was a drama bomb, but I can't edit titles. My bad.And there are some reasons as to why McCain's situation is different, but he could do more to clean up his mess too.My point was not "Screw that big racist Obama", but more, "look at how what happened exposed how much racial tension still exists, even though we all wish/think/hope it doesn't".meh... interesting debate?HEY, SOMEONE JUST LOOKED AT MY PASSPORT!!!
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And there are some reasons as to why McCain's situation is different
Most of the people I disagree here with are plain fear mongers and don't take in any point of view. You obviously will, so please explain the what you think the differences are
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Most of the people I disagree here with are plain fear mongers and don't take in any point of view. You obviously will, so please explain the what you think the differences are
The main difference is I think that McCain had little clue what Hagee was really all about and embraced him on the urging of some ill equipped handlers that told him it would be a good move. Oops. ,Obama on the other hand was very close to and has know the pastor for over 2 decades. neither of these guys can be happy right now, I'll guarantee you that. But Obama has a tougher row to hoe with his situation. Why???...... I have no answer, but clearly Obama is taking more heat.And I've said it before, I am no big fan of McCain becoming president. He's a bit of a loose cannon and seems like a surly old cuss to be honest. Too quick a hair trigger. That concerns me...
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Nutz.. I usually respect your opinion, but on this issue I have to fervently disagree.If everyone just focuses on his pastor's comments, then, ball game over. If Obama were white, this would not even be an issue. You take a few comments, completely out of context and make that the cruxt of his whole campaign, well that's childish and superficial of those discussing the issues.I'm sorry, but I am tired of the same old, long term politicians running this country. If there isn't some type of dramatic change...like stopping them from rewarding themselves with the best benefits possible, pay raises and God knows the other "perks" they receive. Well, it starts me thinking back to why we revolted from England in the first place. Corruption and over taxation by the government. I believe the founding documents give us the rights to not be subject to this kind of treatment and sooner or later, there will be another revolution.I am a republican, but I do not want a 71 year old man in the Oval Office. I definitely do not want another Clinton in the Oval Office. And now I'm left with a charasmatic person who is not only black, but black and white. Someone who speaks with authority and does not back down from a direct question, no matter how difficult the question. His speech in Philadelphia was incredible. He didn't dodge the question with some dumb ass stratergy, he manned up and directly answered the question, without waver or fault.I find Obama to be refreshing and new. I for one, am willing to give him 4 years of my life and vote to see if he can make a difference.And if some redneck (not you DNA) trys to take him out, well, at least we'll have Denzel Washington to take over as President.

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:sadface:Well, like I said, the main crux of this issue came about as a rather lengthy discussion at work today. It seemed clear to me that there is a ton of racism out there. Doesn't necessarily mean everyone is a bad person, but it exists, no doubt about it. And it seems clear that race will shadow this all the way to election day and that could mean some trying days ahead. I hope not, but we will see.And I am not totally anti Obama and nothing I have said hasn't already been discussed in the media. I was just taking it to the next level and spinning it a bit to see what folks think, based on ideas and thoughts I had and what others had said.I don't hate Obama. The guy intrigues me to a large degree. But I do worry about too abrupt a swing to the hard left in this country if he wins. I am a vet, am conservatively leaning and a capitalist at heart. I have some fear an Obama presidency might focus too much on special interest and give away programs, which would mean raising taxes and hurting business. A move too far could seriously hinder entrepreneurial opportunities under such leadership. Maybe I am wrong, who knows. The problem is the true colors (no pun intended) will come out only after that person is in the White House.I loathe Hillary. Easy answer there. McCain (and I have strong reservations here) BUT, at least right now, he seems (politically) more palatable to me. Mainly because, while clearly liberally leaning, he is still has some conservative stripes and I think certain aspects of that are always good (in a traditional sense, lower tax agenda, strong military and less government intrusion). Not always the case with Republicans, obviously, but i hope if McCain gets in he will abide by those fundamentals. He is too old and has a short fuse, but...meh....I dunno man. I really have some serious reservations about everyone to be honest, but would probably hold my nose vote McCain if tomorrow were election day.

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I see your point about possible racist backlash, but I guess I am the eternal optomist that says America is better than that, but some Americans may not be.I too don't want to see Jimmy Give-Away programs. I believe the government owes it to the poorest of poor to help them get a leg up, through education and training programs; through supporting small business to help them grow and expand (thereby hiring more people) and NOT by becoming their luxury wheel chair, letting them sit on their asses and just collect benefits with no effort from themselves to help themselves.The real threat, of late, is BIG business. They're the ones who have become overbloated, money grubbing greed machines. It's as bad as these overpaid athletes. I just can't see the pay and perks these CEO's get and if they are fired or bail, they get these huge parachutes. I remember a few years back Kodak had to start layoffs because they're profit was down a few million dollars from the previous year, although, they still made multi multi-millions in profit. That just boggles my mind. "Ya, we'll support you in the good times and take all the hard work everyone did to get us here, but should we stumble a little, seeee yaaa.And don't even get me started on shipping jobs out of the country. I'm sick and tired of calling Dell and Delta and getting Frank from India helping me. Your name is Frank...come on, really what is it.I will say this, if Hillary gets the Democratic nod, then I will be voting McCain...even though I just can't see putting someone this old (again) in the big chair. Bill Mahr made the comment, ya, he'll be up at three in the morning to take the call because he was already up trying to take a piss.I have a feeling this next presidential tenure is going to be done Vegas style. "Come on seven - eleven".

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Hey, Sarasota! I graduated from New College...could you tell by my politics?

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Nutz.. I usually respect your opinion, but on this issue I have to fervently disagree.If everyone just focuses on his pastor's comments, then, ball game over. If Obama were white, this would not even be an issue. You take a few comments, completely out of context and make that the cruxt of his whole campaign, well that's childish and superficial of those discussing the issues.I'm sorry, but I am tired of the same old, long term politicians running this country. If there isn't some type of dramatic change...like stopping them from rewarding themselves with the best benefits possible, pay raises and God knows the other "perks" they receive. Well, it starts me thinking back to why we revolted from England in the first place. Corruption and over taxation by the government. I believe the founding documents give us the rights to not be subject to this kind of treatment and sooner or later, there will be another revolution.I am a republican, but I do not want a 71 year old man in the Oval Office. I definitely do not want another Clinton in the Oval Office. And now I'm left with a charasmatic person who is not only black, but black and white. Someone who speaks with authority and does not back down from a direct question, no matter how difficult the question. His speech in Philadelphia was incredible. He didn't dodge the question with some dumb ass stratergy, he manned up and directly answered the question, without waver or fault.I find Obama to be refreshing and new. I for one, am willing to give him 4 years of my life and vote to see if he can make a difference.And if some redneck (not you DNA) trys to take him out, well, at least we'll have Denzel Washington to take over as President.
I am a conservative and agree that Obama is a refreshing honest character and really admire him for his speech on the racist Rev. Wright and his thought about race relations in America.As much as I admire him as a person I cannot vote for him due to his socialist positions on the issues. He is the most fiscally liberal candidate running for President out of the three and with a majority in congress will no doubt have free reign.If he does win though at least I won't have the disdain for him like I did for Algore or Kerry.I am a bit offended though that he called his Grandmother a "typical white person" in an interview this week. I am guessing she may be too is she is still alive.
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"typical white person"
Would you be offended if I said typical white person? Have you ever said anything about blacks or any other minorities? I bet you have. Get over it, we all know what he meant when he used that phrase. He didn't use the phrase with negative meaning.As far as Obama being a socialist, no. You're fucking retarded and don't know what a socialist is. Sorry, but it's true.Obama and Hillary really don't differ that much on policies.
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As far as Obama being a socialist, no. You're fucking retarded and don't know what a socialist is. Sorry, but it's true.
He is if your main news source is right wing talk radio and Fox News.
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Would you be offended if I said typical white person? Have you ever said anything about blacks or any other minorities? I bet you have. Get over it, we all know what he meant when he used that phrase. He didn't use the phrase with negative meaning.As far as Obama being a socialist, no. You're fucking retarded and don't know what a socialist is. Sorry, but it's true.Obama and Hillary really don't differ that much on policies.
A socialist is someone who supports socialized programs. So that means.....Yeah, he is. Maybe not "Karl Marx socialist", but "left of most of America socialist". And Hillary is left of him.
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A socialist is someone who supports socialized programs. So that means.....
Meh. I'm not sure about this definition. Certainly there is a sliding scale, which is why I don't think it's a good idea to label people as socialist or not to begin with (okay, fine, I guess you can say Marx was a socialist, but that's mostly because he invented it). But yes, Obama certainly is quite socially and economically liberal, which is what you're trying to say. I don't know enough about either of them to say which one, Hillary or Obama, is more "socialist." I had heard that Obama's record was more "liberal" than Hillary's, but again, I haven't researched the issue that much. You're smart and you think about politics a lot, so I'll take your word on it.
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Meh. I'm not sure about this definition. Certainly there is a sliding scale, which is why I don't think it's a good idea to label people as socialist or not to begin with (okay, fine, I guess you can say Marx was a socialist, but that's mostly because he invented it). But yes, Obama certainly is quite socially and economically liberal, which is what you're trying to say. I don't know enough about either of them to say which one, Hillary or Obama, is more "socialist." I had heard that Obama's record was more "liberal" than Hillary's, but again, I haven't researched the issue that much. You're smart and you think about politics a lot, so I'll take your word on it.
Explain that to Checky :club: Yeah, it's a sliding scale. I consider anyone who wants more government than I do "socialist". (s/w again, for the slow). I've been hearing lately that Obama's voting record is left of Hillary's, but I find that hard to believe. I guess it also depends on the importance you place on certain issues. If Obama voted on 100 new "welfare for corporation" bills that Hillary voted against, but Hillary voted to socialize 1/7th of the economy, that would make Hillary more socialist in my opinion, but a raw count might show otherswise.From what I can tell by their positions, it appears Hillary is left of Obama, but it's a close call. And by the way, McCain is pretty close to both of them, so we don't have a real choice this year (again).
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From what I can tell by their positions, it appears Hillary is left of Obama, but it's a close call. And by the way, McCain is pretty close to both of them, so we don't have a real choice this year (again).
So I take it you'll be once again voting for Nader, right?
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From the socialists I've talked to they are not too happy with the democratic party in general. They (the far left community) feel both party's give in/make too many deals with wall street. Among other policy disagreements.

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I think it's time to dump the cold war labels and come up with something closer to a real description. And H if anyone who wants more government than you is a socialist then I figure that would include most of the planet,lol.

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I think it's time to dump the cold war labels and come up with something closer to a real description. And H if anyone who wants more government than you is a socialist then I figure that would include most of the planet,lol.
I agree that "left" and "right" are poor labels these days. I think a better distinction would be:-- Statists: those who believe that central planning works, that citizens are subjects of the state to be used for the greater goodvs-- Individualists: those who believe that individuals engaged in voluntary consensual transactions should be left alone, and that we own our own life and body.For the last several decades, those *had* been historically the left/Democrats, and the right/Republicans, respectively. I don't think that applies anymore. Bush has increased gov't power over individuals in every area of life, and the Democrats biggest complaint against him seems to be that he didn't go there fast enough. So I'd put both the D's and R's firmly in the Statist camp at this point, with the exception of a minority in each group.Again, even that is a sliding scale, so there are few pure statists and few pure individualists, but I think it gives a better idea of what we can expect in terms of laws passed.
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