Jump to content

Dn Is A Fiscal Conservative?


Recommended Posts

Daniels latest blog surprised me with how fiscally conservative it was.What he said about competition making any product cheaper and of better quality (one of the best arguments AGAINST socialized medicine ie; Canada's health care system) was right on the money but a bit surprising coming from him taking into account his views on several other social issues.It's nice to finally agree with a blog that wasn't just about hard core poker and to see that he doesn't lean totally liberal on every issue.Discuss

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 174
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Daniels latest blog surprised me with how fiscally conservative it was.What he said about competition making any product cheaper and of better quality (one of the best arguments AGAINST socialized medicine ie; Canada's health care system) was right on the money but a bit surprising coming from him taking into account his views on several other social issues.It's nice to finally agree with a blog that wasn't just about hard core poker and to see that he doesn't lean totally liberal on every issue.Discuss
LOL, yeah, the US is a GREAT example of how well medicine prices can be. You've only got the most expensive medicines in the world :club:
Link to post
Share on other sites
Daniels latest blog surprised me with how fiscally conservative it was.What he said about competition making any product cheaper and of better quality (one of the best arguments AGAINST socialized medicine ie; Canada's health care system) was right on the money but a bit surprising coming from him taking into account his views on several other social issues.It's nice to finally agree with a blog that wasn't just about hard core poker and to see that he doesn't lean totally liberal on every issue. :club::D:D:D:D
Link to post
Share on other sites
LOL, yeah, the US is a GREAT example of how well medicine prices can be. You've only got the most expensive medicines in the world :D
Hey Z, this will be hard for you to believe but I don't think we agree on this one...LOL. Start doing the research on prices for various medical costs around the world. Then do an in depth study on true costs vs billed amounts vs costs the are truly paid. That should take you a few weeks...but at least you can relax about the ice caps!!The comment that "we have the most expensive" as I understand it (I do have several health care professionals as friends) is a lot of creative accounting. Nothing costs what is claimed or paid on what is billed. It all gets negotiated out by Hospitals, insurance companies and doctors....that is part of the reason for all the mergers we have seen the last few years of hospitals....leverage!! The costs are driven through the roof partially by people (many illegal immigrants) that use the emergency room for a headache or general health care.Anyway, it may be expensive but it also is good...if you have a job with a solid company that takes care of their people. I know at my company we pay approx. 400k per year in health insurance for employees. It is a cost of doing business but each and every one of them and their families is well covered and has top notch health care.How exactly do you compare the quality of care between systems? I don't know that there is an accurate way to do that but you can spemd some time on that as well.As always I will not support socialized programs as the solution for much of anything...I just don't want, need or think the government should be involved!! :club::D:D
Link to post
Share on other sites

The claim that healthcare in the US is the most expensive in the world is based on percentage of GDP spent on healthcare.By this same standard, the US has a video game crisis, as we spend a much higher percentage of our GDP on video games than third world countries.Just sayin'.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We have socialized police and socialized firefighters so why not socialized medicine? We are the only post-industrial nation in the world without it and thats why we rank 23rd in health care right behind Cuba.And a earlier poster blamed high medical prices on immigrants? wow. alright buddy. by the way, i have no medical insurance, I'm one hospital visit away from living on the streets. medical bills are the number one reason we have so many homeless and all we need to do to fix the problem is make sure everyone has health care with a single payer plan. we need to get rid of insurance companies, they are designed to SCREW YOU. do you even know how they make money? by denying coverage to people who need it.you pay money to them your whole life and when you finally need it they turn you down because you misfiled the paperwork. its a system based on screwing the little guy. all private insurance that deals with the health of people are a joke. the market system has obviously failed in the insurance industry because the costs keep doubling every two years and the coverage is getting worse and worse every year. the system has failed and its time we use a proven system that nearly every one of our allies in the world use.Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, France, Netherlands, Canada and ENGLAND all have universal health care. Its about time we start caring about peoples health even if they don't have a lot of money.

Link to post
Share on other sites
We have socialized police and socialized firefighters so why not socialized medicine? We are the only post-industrial nation in the world without it and thats why we rank 23rd in health care right behind Cuba.And a earlier poster blamed high medical prices on immigrants? wow. alright buddy. by the way, i have no medical insurance, I'm one hospital visit away from living on the streets. medical bills are the number one reason we have so many homeless and all we need to do to fix the problem is make sure everyone has health care with a single payer plan. we need to get rid of insurance companies, they are designed to SCREW YOU. do you even know how they make money? by denying coverage to people who need it.you pay money to them your whole life and when you finally need it they turn you down because you misfiled the paperwork. its a system based on screwing the little guy. all private insurance that deals with the health of people are a joke. the market system has obviously failed in the insurance industry because the costs keep doubling every two years and the coverage is getting worse and worse every year. the system has failed and its time we use a proven system that nearly every one of our allies in the world use.Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, France, Netherlands, Canada and ENGLAND all have universal health care. Its about time we start caring about peoples health even if they don't have a lot of money.
Was your abusive father a insurance executive? So afraid of the big bad insurance company that you want the big bad government to take care of.....how is that better?The simple reason that socialized medicine will not work in the long run is economics. You are not going to have people go to medical school plus residency for 12+ years if they can only make $80,000 a year. Will the government subsidize the schooling too? Most Dr.s unless have family money get out of medical school with 100k to 300k in student loans. OBGYN's pay $150,000 a year just for malpracice because of our litigious society. Is the governemnt going to pay this too?
Link to post
Share on other sites
Was your abusive father a insurance executive? So afraid of the big bad insurance company that you want the big bad government to take care of.....how is that better?The simple reason that socialized medicine will not work in the long run is economics. You are not going to have people go to medical school plus residency for 12+ years if they can only make $80,000 a year. Will the government subsidize the schooling too? Most Dr.s unless have family money get out of medical school with 100k to 300k in student loans. OBGYN's pay $150,000 a year just for malpracice because of our litigious society. Is the governemnt going to pay this too?
GPAnyone that is all excited about the government running the health care system should make a visit to their localDepartment of Motor Vehicles and see how well they run that.Not to mention that most of you on the side of some sort of government provided health care always want to talk about cost.You're not buyin a freaking tv here!! When it comes to myself or my family needing medical care for a live threatening illness or injury I could care less about the cost, I want the best medical professionals available.This is why so many in the country's mentioned above come here when the shit hits the fan instead of staying in their country for "free" (nothing my friends is "free") health care.
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen health care from the other side of the desk, and I think socialized medicine will be the end of a lot of private practices. I've been doing it for 10 years now, and have seen @ a 50% decrease in reimbursements. Every January, we are informed that there will be another decrease due to medicare costs or inflation adjustments. Every other insurance company then bases their payments of the medicare fee schedule, and they all cut their payments to the docs. Socialized medicine will greatly reduce the payments to docs even more. Our current system doesn't work. I see twice as many patients as I did 10 years ago, and make the same $. It sucks. I would not reccomend that any kid these days go into medicine, because it is hard to make up the cost after school. We're going to have a meltdown in healthcare soon no matter which way it goes. I hate the idea of socialized medicine and insurance companies equally!!! One for the raping I'm going to take, and t :icon_hand:the other for the rape that is currently going on! :club:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Was your abusive father a insurance executive? So afraid of the big bad insurance company that you want the big bad government to take care of.....how is that better?The simple reason that socialized medicine will not work in the long run is economics. You are not going to have people go to medical school plus residency for 12+ years if they can only make $80,000 a year. Will the government subsidize the schooling too? Most Dr.s unless have family money get out of medical school with 100k to 300k in student loans. OBGYN's pay $150,000 a year just for malpracice because of our litigious society. Is the government going to pay this too?
Do you think the only reason people become doctors is to make a lot of money and not save peoples lives? Socialized medicine works, ask any western European country. The quality of doctors are not going to go down once we have universal health care, people will still be teaching the same medical practices as before. Okay, so the Department of Motor Vehicles has a bad rep for being slow but what about the other 911 services? They are all socialized and are fast. Do you think just because the government controls medical services things will slow down? The police are still fast, the firefighters are still fast and the ambulances will still be fast.
Link to post
Share on other sites
I have seen health care from the other side of the desk, and I think socialized medicine will be the end of a lot of private practices. I've been doing it for 10 years now, and have seen @ a 50% decrease in reimbursements. Every January, we are informed that there will be another decrease due to medicare costs or inflation adjustments. Every other insurance company then bases their payments of the medicare fee schedule, and they all cut their payments to the docs. Socialized medicine will greatly reduce the payments to docs even more. Our current system doesn't work. I see twice as many patients as I did 10 years ago, and make the same $. It sucks. I would not reccomend that any kid these days go into medicine, because it is hard to make up the cost after school. We're going to have a meltdown in healthcare soon no matter which way it goes. I hate the idea of socialized medicine and insurance companies equally!!! One for the raping I'm going to take, and t :icon_hand:the other for the rape that is currently going on! :club:
I looked at an EOB from when my wife had her "annual visit: If she paid cash it would be $200, then insurance company got billed over $600 and they paid out $82, the doctor got less than if my wife was a cash patient. I could not imagine being OBGYN and not working for an HMO like Kaiser.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you think the only reason people become doctors is to make a lot of money and not save peoples lives? Socialized medicine works, ask any western European country. The quality of doctors are not going to go down once we have universal health care, people will still be teaching the same medical practices as before. Okay, so the Department of Motor Vehicles has a bad rep for being slow but what about the other 911 services? They are all socialized and are fast. Do you think just because the government controls medical services things will slow down? The police are still fast, the firefighters are still fast and the ambulances will still be fast.
This is a funny post for so many reaons.1st. Yes people become doctors to make money and a lot of it. People are not going to spend $300,000 and go to 12 years of school to make the same as an english teacher who also helps people.2nd. 911 being fast is comical, I live in a pretty afluent area that is small and we have 4 firehouses within 5 miles, my neighbors house was on fire and it took 30 minutes, the closest fire house is less then 1/2 mile from us and they got there last. The house almost burned to the ground. Although they did save all surounding houses.To quote the infamous Flavor Flav:Hit meGoing going goneNow I dialed 911 a long time agoDon't you see how late they're reactin'They only come and they come when they wannaSo get the morgue embalm the gonerThey don't care 'cause they stay paid anywayThey teach ya like an ace they can't be betrayedI know you stumble with no use peopleIf your life is on the line they you're dead todayLate comings with the late comin' stretcherThat's a body bag in disguise y'all betchaI call 'em body snatchers quick they come to fetch ya?With an autopsy ambulance just to dissect yaThey are the kings 'cause they swing amputationLose your arms, your legs to them it's compilationI can prove it to you watch the rotationIt all adds up to a funky situationSo get up get, get get down911 is a joke in yo townGet up, get, get, get downLate 911 wears the late crown911 is a joke
Link to post
Share on other sites
This is a funny post for so many reaons.1st. Yes people become doctors to make money and a lot of it. People are not going to spend $300,000 and go to 12 years of school to make the same as an english teacher who also helps people.2nd. 911 being fast is comical, I live in a pretty afluent area that is small and we have 4 firehouses within 5 miles, my neighbors house was on fire and it took 30 minutes, the closest fire house is less then 1/2 mile from us and they got there last. The house almost burned to the ground. Although they did save all surounding houses.To quote the infamous Flavor Flav:Hit meGoing going goneNow I dialed 911 a long time agoDon't you see how late they're reactin'They only come and they come when they wannaSo get the morgue embalm the gonerThey don't care 'cause they stay paid anywayThey teach ya like an ace they can't be betrayedI know you stumble with no use peopleIf your life is on the line they you're dead todayLate comings with the late comin' stretcherThat's a body bag in disguise y'all betchaI call 'em body snatchers quick they come to fetch ya?With an autopsy ambulance just to dissect yaThey are the kings 'cause they swing amputationLose your arms, your legs to them it's compilationI can prove it to you watch the rotationIt all adds up to a funky situationSo get up get, get get down911 is a joke in yo townGet up, get, get, get downLate 911 wears the late crown911 is a joke
I report news for my local paper, I talk to the fire cheif and police chief all the time and find reaction times to emergency calls (fires-robbery's-whatever.) We have volunteer fire fighters and they can still get to an area 5 miles away within minutes.
Link to post
Share on other sites
We have socialized police and socialized firefighters so why not socialized medicine? We are the only post-industrial nation in the world without it and thats why we rank 23rd in health care right behind Cuba.And a earlier poster blamed high medical prices on immigrants? wow. alright buddy. by the way, i have no medical insurance, I'm one hospital visit away from living on the streets. medical bills are the number one reason we have so many homeless and all we need to do to fix the problem is make sure everyone has health care with a single payer plan. we need to get rid of insurance companies, they are designed to SCREW YOU. do you even know how they make money? by denying coverage to people who need it.you pay money to them your whole life and when you finally need it they turn you down because you misfiled the paperwork. its a system based on screwing the little guy. all private insurance that deals with the health of people are a joke. the market system has obviously failed in the insurance industry because the costs keep doubling every two years and the coverage is getting worse and worse every year. the system has failed and its time we use a proven system that nearly every one of our allies in the world use.Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, France, Netherlands, Canada and ENGLAND all have universal health care. Its about time we start caring about peoples health even if they don't have a lot of money.
First of all, using Cuba as an example sort of damages your credibility. I don't know how old you are, but if you are my age, you may remeber that, right up until the Wall fell, the streets of Moscow were paved with gold, and everyone in Russia was living in luxury. The same people are now bringing you Cuba's excellent medical care. In other words, it's not real. Cubans live in mud huts in garbage strewn neighborhoods. The notion that their crumbling infrastructure miraculously supports quality healthcare is laughable, at best.Second, every nation with socialist health care is in crisis. Costs are too high, waiting lists are intolerable, and care is second rate. It is not a system we want to emulate.Third, the US is not exactly a free enterprise system. It's better than anyone else, but is mostly controlled by special interests. How many suppliers of doctors do we have? One, the AMA. Why? Because they have good lobbyists. If a company invents a drug, and you and your doctor think it can cure your rare condition, can they give it to you? No, a bureaucrat needs to give the thumbs up on your lifesaving treatment, adding 10s of millions to the costs of drugs. The list goes on and on.But the main reason socialist healthcare can't work is the same reason socialism fails everywhere: the connection between supply and demand is broken. There is no reason to introduce new technologies, because under a single payer system, either everyone has access, or nobody has access. That means that there is no way to pass research costs on to the consumer (certainly bureaucrats can't be expected to do THAT job fairly.)This last paragraph could be a book by itself, so I'll stop there, but if you want me to elaborate, let me know.
Link to post
Share on other sites
First of all, using Cuba as an example sort of damages your credibility. I don't know how old you are, but if you are my age, you may remeber that, right up until the Wall fell, the streets of Moscow were paved with gold, and everyone in Russia was living in luxury. The same people are now bringing you Cuba's excellent medical care. In other words, it's not real. Cubans live in mud huts in garbage strewn neighborhoods. The notion that their crumbling infrastructure miraculously supports quality healthcare is laughable, at best.Second, every nation with socialist health care is in crisis. Costs are too high, waiting lists are intolerable, and care is second rate. It is not a system we want to emulate.Third, the US is not exactly a free enterprise system. It's better than anyone else, but is mostly controlled by special interests. How many suppliers of doctors do we have? One, the AMA. Why? Because they have good lobbyists. If a company invents a drug, and you and your doctor think it can cure your rare condition, can they give it to you? No, a bureaucrat needs to give the thumbs up on your lifesaving treatment, adding 10s of millions to the costs of drugs. The list goes on and on.But the main reason socialist healthcare can't work is the same reason socialism fails everywhere: the connection between supply and demand is broken. There is no reason to introduce new technologies, because under a single payer system, either everyone has access, or nobody has access. That means that there is no way to pass research costs on to the consumer (certainly bureaucrats can't be expected to do THAT job fairly.) :club: This last paragraph could be a book by itself, so I'll stop there, but if you want me to elaborate, let me know.
:D Well said, I could have eloborated my last post on this same issue but I went for some comedy instead.
Link to post
Share on other sites

everyone thinking that socialized healthcare would be a bad thing in the US needs to spend a few years living without health insurance. its a lot of fun when you get sick and have to get friends who work in pharmacies to steal antibiotics for you or when your whole mouth feels like somebody set it on fire every time a little sugar gets into one of your dozen or so cavities. and im a young single person. i can't even imagine what its like to try to raise a family like this. how much money gets wasted every day on guns and bombs and i live in fear of catching a sinus infection because i can't afford to go to the doctor and then get the medicine. and its not like i'm a bum either. i put in my forty hours a week. the great big racket in DC are sure to take their cut of that (or else!!!). but then they'd gladly leave me out on the street to die.

adding 10s of millions to the costs of drugs. The list goes on and on.
stop putting people in prisons for stupid things like drug offenses and stop dropping bombs on arabs. wow, look at all the money we've saved!!! 10s of millions...pennies compared to those completely useless things.
But the main reason socialist healthcare can't work is the same reason socialism fails everywhere: the connection between supply and demand is broken. There is no reason to introduce new technologies, because under a single payer system, either everyone has access, or nobody has access. That means that there is no way to pass research costs on to the consumer (certainly bureaucrats can't be expected to do THAT job fairly.)
it must be nice out there in intellectual land. hows the weather, sunny and mild? when's the last time you didn't go to the doctor because you couldn't afford it? thats right, didn't think so.
Link to post
Share on other sites
everyone thinking that socialized healthcare would be a bad thing in the US needs to spend a few years living without health insurance. its a lot of fun when you get sick and have to get friends who work in pharmacies to steal antibiotics for you or when your whole mouth feels like somebody set it on fire every time a little sugar gets into one of your dozen or so cavities. and im a young single person. i can't even imagine what its like to try to raise a family like this.
Ummmm........ buy Health Insurance!?!If you are under 30 for a PPO plan with a high deductible it should be like $120 a month for BlueSHield, Healthnet, Aetna etc. or for even less you can get strictly an emergency policy for 40-60 a month.Health insurance is expensive if you are self employed and have a big family or older and right before medicare kicks in, other than that its really not that bad. I'll give you an idea, my wife and I are slef employed and we pay +/- $500/mo for health insurance for the two of us an our son. To compare our car insurance is almost $300 a month, what do you think is more expensive to insure? Car or Person.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Check out the World Health Organization's rank of country's with the best health care systems. Who's on top? France? and with socialized medicine?!Whether you want to admit it or not its the best system in the world. My mistake about Cuba being above us but they are only two below us. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------The World Health Organization's rankingof the world's health systems. Source: WHO World Health Report - See also Spreadsheet Details (731kb) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rank Country 1 France2 Italy3 San Marino4 Andorra5 Malta6 Singapore7 Spain8 Oman9 Austria10 Japan11 Norway12 Portugal13 Monaco14 Greece15 Iceland16 Luxembourg17 Netherlands18 United Kingdom19 Ireland20 Switzerland21 Belgium22 Colombia23 Sweden24 Cyprus25 Germany26 Saudi Arabia27 United Arab Emirates28 Israel29 Morocco30 Canada31 Finland32 Australia33 Chile34 Denmark35 Dominica36 Costa Rica37 United States of America38 Slovenia39 CubaFor a industrialized nation we are sure behind in health care.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Ummmm........ buy Health Insurance!?!If you are under 30 for a PPO plan with a high deductible it should be like $120 a month for BlueSHield, Healthnet, Aetna etc. or for even less you can get strictly an emergency policy for 40-60 a month.Health insurance is expensive if you are self employed and have a big family or older and right before medicare kicks in, other than that its really not that bad. I'll give you an idea, my wife and I are slef employed and we pay +/- $500/mo for health insurance for the two of us an our son. To compare our car insurance is almost $300 a month, what do you think is more expensive to insure? Car or Person.
That'll come in handy when your in the hospital and you find out they canceled your coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Insurance company's rape the average American.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Check out the World Health Organization's rank of country's with the best health care systems. Who's on top? France? and with socialized medicine?!Whether you want to admit it or not its the best system in the world. My mistake about Cuba being above us but they are only two below us. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------The World Health Organization's rankingof the world's health systems. Source: WHO World Health Report - See also Spreadsheet Details (731kb) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The WHO is obviously who we should be listening to on this matter.
That'll come in handy when your in the hospital and you find out they canceled your coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Insurance company's rape the average American.
Man what happened to you?? If you are honest when you fill out your application then there won't be an issue. Only deal with a top rated insurer and your going to be covered, if it is that much of an issue to you, go to work for a company that has a group policy, group policies cannot turn anyone down for pre-existing conditions.
Link to post
Share on other sites
The WHO is obviously who we should be listening to on this matter.
Is that a joke? They are a impartial organization dedicated to improving world health. They are part of the United Nations and if anything would favor us after all we created the United Nations.Besides the fact that insurance company's look for ways to deny coverage. Lets all applaud a health care system dedicated to making as much money as possible.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey Z, this will be hard for you to believe but I don't think we agree on this one...LOL. Start doing the research on prices for various medical costs around the world. Then do an in depth study on true costs vs billed amounts vs costs the are truly paid. That should take you a few weeks...but at least you can relax about the ice caps!!The comment that "we have the most expensive" as I understand it (I do have several health care professionals as friends) is a lot of creative accounting. Nothing costs what is claimed or paid on what is billed. It all gets negotiated out by Hospitals, insurance companies and doctors....that is part of the reason for all the mergers we have seen the last few years of hospitals....leverage!! The costs are driven through the roof partially by people (many illegal immigrants) that use the emergency room for a headache or general health care.Anyway, it may be expensive but it also is good...if you have a job with a solid company that takes care of their people. I know at my company we pay approx. 400k per year in health insurance for employees. It is a cost of doing business but each and every one of them and their families is well covered and has top notch health care.How exactly do you compare the quality of care between systems? I don't know that there is an accurate way to do that but you can spemd some time on that as well.As always I will not support socialized programs as the solution for much of anything...I just don't want, need or think the government should be involved!! :club::D:D
What you say is true IF you can afford insurance in the first place. For those that can't afford the insurance they don't get the break that insurance companies get so they get charged the full amount. True, many don't pay the full amount, but that's what they are charged. If you and your wife both worked full time jobs at minimum wage, paid rent, ate food, etc. than you wouldn't be able to afford insurance. If something were to happen to either of you... you are on the streets. It's sad but true. The guy who did Super Size me also did a series show called 30 days, and in one episode him and his wife lived on minimum wage for 30 days. It was an awesome doc.
Link to post
Share on other sites
What you say is true IF you can afford insurance in the first place. For those that can't afford the insurance they don't get the break that insurance companies get so they get charged the full amount. True, many don't pay the full amount, but that's what they are charged. If you and your wife both worked full time jobs at minimum wage, paid rent, ate food, etc. than you wouldn't be able to afford insurance. If something were to happen to either of you... you are on the streets. It's sad but true. The guy who did Super Size me also did a series show called 30 days, and in one episode him and his wife lived on minimum wage for 30 days. It was an awesome doc.
Word DN. Canada doesn't have the perfect system but its decades ahead of the American heath care system. If I get in a car accident it'll fall on my parents to either pay my medical bills or become bankrupt and I hate having that burdon my shoulders but I cant afford insurance.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...