Huge Foxwoods Hand

[PrtyPSux 0]

2nd level of the foxwoods tourney, blinds 100/200 I got the most aggro table of the field with Dave Williams and Mark Seif to my immediate left. First level I made it 225 with a very wide range, and got up to 30k (20k start). 2nd level I folded QQ face up on a 9 high board and I got back down to 25k (the guy showed me a Q after limp reraising to 3700 pf and betting 25k on the flop). Seif knows what I'm capable of, but probably thinks I'm pretty tight based on my FT play @ Reno....3 limpers, I limp 109hh in the hijack, williams folds for the first time ever, seif limps, sb (the guy who I layed QQ to, who seems to make massive bets way too often) makes it 1200 with 30k behind, it folds to me and I call. Seif calls without much thought to it, he only has about 15k behind. Flop Qh9s9c SB checks, I check, seif instachecks. Turn is 8h giving me the gutshot sfd along with trips sb bets 3k. now whats your play? and what is your play in 3 possible situations after that.A- you raise to 9k seif folds and the guy who you already folded QQ to shoves over the top? call or fold?B- you smooth call, seif folds, the river is a Js and the guy moves you all in for about 20k, or maybe bets 8k...C- you smooth call, and seif shoves in for an extra 12k or so, which is half your stack with about 15k already in the pot.One of them actually happened, BUT I think all 3 are VERY likely situations. All of them tough.

[bdc30 0]

Sucks when we already know the results. I woulda played it the exact same way you did. Nice run you've been on, keep it up!!

[iowahawk09 0]

C!

[YBravo 0]

I would bet the flop. I know DN says you have to let people catch up a little bit to win tournaments, but it seems like there is plenty out there for the SB and Seif to have a piece of. It seems like you could probably trap the SB for all his chips if he has A-A or K-K, as he would probably put in a big check-raise with one of these hands. It seems like Seif could have just about ATC here, so I don't know if a check to him is necessarily going to produce a bet on a fairly coordinated board. As played, I would probably raise to 9k and define your hand on a board that is even more coordinated with the turn card. That leads us into option A, in which I would probably call. The all-in move seems weird after the check on the flop, and I'm personally not good enough to fold this hand. You have to get all the chips at some point, right? Option B, I would definitely call the 8k, but the all-in seems a little bit riskier to call at this point. How can he move in on this board without having a straight beat considering the pre-flop action. I would still probably call, although it's hard to think of any non-bluff hand we're beating.Option C, I would fold if the SB went all in as well, but if the small blind folds, I would insta-call. The turn is ripe for an "all-in on a draw on the turn to represent a good hand" play.

[PrtyPSux 0]

I think I played it fine on the flop and turn, by just smooth calling the 3k. But once Mark Seif shoves I think I *could* get away from it, it would be the sickest laydown I've made, and I actually thought about it for a bit but I had already made a bad laydown on a previous hand and didn't want to make another one. Uggh, I've been beating myself up for not mucking, considering his range I think he cant shove junk here. only J10, 96, 97, 98, 88, Q9, and A9 or K9.....I don't think I should be calling if I think that's his range.

[YBravo 0]

Why do you think there is no way he can shove on a draw like AhJh? Is it because his stack size is small in comparison to yours and the SB's?If he's only shoving made hands, then I guess you can fold.

[SpiderGuard 0]

Why do you think there is no way he can shove on a draw like AhJh? Is it because his stack size is small in comparison to yours and the SB's?If he's only shoving made hands, then I guess you can fold.

Let me preface this by saying I could never have gotten away from this hand in a million years. But I think the only one I have a chance in hell of getting away from is Seif shoving. I don't think he's pushing over you and the other guy without a made hand. Someone has something, and someone is likely going to call this shove, so he must have a huge hand here.I think SB bets with a Q plenty of times there, especially after the weakness on the flop, so I'm never getting away from anything he does. He takes all my chips if he has me.

[copernicus 0]

Im probably pushing after the 8h falls, but dont mind a raise. I hate a smooth call there. anything sb does I push back against. I dont see C being a realistic scenario. but if it happens i insta fold, theres no way Seif is bluffing there, and probably has a better 9.

[PrtyPSux 0]

Im probably pushing after the 8h falls, but dont mind a raise. I hate a smooth call there. anything sb does I push back against. I dont see C being a realistic scenario. Seif isnt going to limp and play that passively on the flop, to push the turn. If he does i read it as a bluff and call.

C is what happened, he had Q9o.....meh...I disagree about raising the turn, shoving is terrible imo, a standard 3x re-raise isnt that bad but it only gets me action when I'm crushed I think, considering the pot..MAYBE AA and KK call the reraise, but if they do then he'd also call my vbet on the river so it makes little difference except for the fact that if I smooth call I can give myself a shot to fold if I think I'm beat....if only I were that disciplined though, I thought about mucking for a while but the big flush draw kept me in.

[copernicus 0]

C is what happened, he had Q9o.....meh...I disagree about raising the turn, shoving is terrible imo, a standard 3x re-raise isnt that bad but it only gets me action when I'm crushed I think, considering the pot..MAYBE AA and KK call the reraise, but if they do then he'd also call my vbet on the river so it makes little difference except for the fact that if I smooth call I can give myself a shot to fold if I think I'm beat....if only I were that disciplined though, I thought about mucking for a while but the big flush draw kept me in.

I suggested the push line because I would have put sb on a fairly big draw...14 outs or so and the stacks are pretty shallow for a reraise against that kind of draw. I really didnt pay much attention to Seif, and would have wound up in the same spot with the push as calling him, but if I had gotten into that position I dont see any hand he can be trying to represent for a bluff.'Edit: I guess sb's stack isnt that shallow..I was remembering him as the 15k hand. Do you push if he only has 12k behind?

[TwoFourOffsuit 0]

What was the idea behind checking the flop with a made set and a flop that gives a variety of hands a legit straight draw?

[copernicus 0]

What was the idea behind checking the flop with a made set and a flop that gives a variety of hands a legit straight draw?

I assumed it was to check raise with an aggressive player like Seif on the button, who might take a shot at any pot checked to him.

[PrtyPSux 0]

I assumed it was to check raise with an aggressive player like Seif on the button, who might take a shot at any pot checked to him.

when the sb checks the flop, I pretty much think that he either has AK or QQ, maybe AQ, but not AA or KK as I think he's the type to follow through on that flop, what I wanted to accomplish is to get extra money in the pot if mark bets the flop, if he decides to check, then I just planned on calling the SB down and not rr'ing him at all, I actually didnt think that seif was a factor in the hand, but as it turned out, he was, therefor I think I should fold the turn to mark's shove. And yes, I probably do shove if sb has 12 or 15k because it makes it more likely that I get called by a hand like AQ.

[ramenandeggs 0]

C is what happened, he had Q9o.....meh...I disagree about raising the turn, shoving is terrible imo, a standard 3x re-raise isnt that bad but it only gets me action when I'm crushed I think, considering the pot..MAYBE AA and KK call the reraise, but if they do then he'd also call my vbet on the river so it makes little difference except for the fact that if I smooth call I can give myself a shot to fold if I think I'm beat....if only I were that disciplined though, I thought about mucking for a while but the big flush draw kept me in.

Doesn't this mean it would've made your further decisions a lot easier? It would've defined where you stood a lot faster. Or am I mistaken and this just a training tool that wastes a lot of chips once you get to the WPT level of play?