omahahilo 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I'm not upset, you can flame if you wish, but I'm gonna ask.At what money level do you reach players who wont push all in with just a Jack hi flush draw with just the river to come?Curious,Matt Link to post Share on other sites
JMoney2681 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I'm not upset, you can flame if you wish, but I'm gonna ask.At what money level do you reach players who wont push all in with just a Jack hi flush draw with just the river to come?Curious,MattNever. Everything in poker is situational. Sometimes pushing with a flush draw on the river is their best play. Usually not, but sometimes it is. Link to post Share on other sites
omahahilo 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 I'm sorry I didn't say that correctly. I meant what level would people stop CALLING with only a Jack hi flush draw.I understand that pushing with it is differant depending on position etc ...Matt Link to post Share on other sites
JMoney2681 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I'm sorry I didn't say that correctly. I meant what level would people stop CALLING with only a Jack hi flush draw.I understand that pushing with it is differant depending on position etc ...MattWell this depends on pot odds and implied odds? LOL. Link to post Share on other sites
_Great_Dane_ 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Well this depends on pot odds and implied odds? LOL.Exactly !!! Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I'm not upset, you can flame if you wish, but I'm gonna ask.At what money level do you reach players who wont push all in with just a Jack hi flush draw with just the river to come?Curious,MattYou hate $ right? Link to post Share on other sites
_Great_Dane_ 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 You hate $ right?He probably is like me - tired of them hitting it on the river !!! Link to post Share on other sites
omahahilo 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 No ... I hate when I get knocked out of tourney after tourney this way.I will set it up for you.I am UTG and I get AK suited I have 1250 in front of me. I raise to 200 with the blinds at 25-50. All fold to the button who calls with his stack of 1350. Both blinds fold.The flop comes down K-8-6 rainbow. I make a 150 chip bet to knock out the straight draw. Button calls.The turn brings a 2. Now the 8 and 6 are suited in spades. I assume that there is a whole host of draws out there I push all in. Button calls.His hand is turned up J-3 spades ... river is a spade. I'm out. So ... tell me what I did wrong here.Matt Link to post Share on other sites
sholden 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I'm sorry I didn't say that correctly. I meant what level would people stop CALLING with only a Jack hi flush draw.I understand that pushing with it is differant depending on position etc ...MattHopefully never. Link to post Share on other sites
borinka99 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 you should want them to call whenever they aren't getting proper odds to call. Link to post Share on other sites
crocd99 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 No ... I hate when I get knocked out of tourney after tourney this way.I will set it up for you.I am UTG and I get AK suited I have 1250 in front of me. I raise to 200 with the blinds at 25-50. All fold to the button who calls with his stack of 1350. Both blinds fold.The flop comes down K-8-6 rainbow. I make a 150 chip bet to knock out the straight draw. Button calls.The turn brings a 2. Now the 8 and 6 are suited in spades. I assume that there is a whole host of draws out there I push all in. Button calls.His hand is turned up J-3 spades ... river is a spade. I'm out. So ... tell me what I did wrong here.Mattwell the first thing you did wrong was let someone change some of the flop cards after the turn was dealt. you shouldnt let that happen and if it does happen you should probably say something Link to post Share on other sites
DmsTips 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 No ... I hate when I get knocked out of tourney after tourney this way.I will set it up for you.I am UTG and I get AK suited I have 1250 in front of me. I raise to 200 with the blinds at 25-50. All fold to the button who calls with his stack of 1350. Both blinds fold.The flop comes down K-8-6 rainbow. I make a 150 chip bet to knock out the straight draw. Button calls.The turn brings a 2. Now the 8 and 6 are suited in spades. I assume that there is a whole host of draws out there I push all in. Button calls.His hand is turned up J-3 spades ... river is a spade. I'm out. So ... tell me what I did wrong here.MattI must be doing something wrong, i love when they make that call : \ Link to post Share on other sites
omahahilo 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Alright dammit I apologise again ...I meant to say the 6 and the 2 are suited in spades.Go ahead and take your shots. I give up. I'm trying to ask a serious question and you just wanna **** with me so good ... have your fun.Matt Link to post Share on other sites
JMoney2681 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 No ... I hate when I get knocked out of tourney after tourney this way.I will set it up for you.MattWell was it a rainbow flop or not? Secondly, sometimes you still lose even when you did nothing wrong. Sometimes flush draws hit and you lose, and there is nothing you can do when donkeys make -EV situations that hit. Link to post Share on other sites
sholden 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 No ... I hate when I get knocked out of tourney after tourney this way.I will set it up for you.I am UTG and I get AK suited I have 1250 in front of me. I raise to 200 with the blinds at 25-50. All fold to the button who calls with his stack of 1350. Both blinds fold.The flop comes down K-8-6 rainbow. I make a 150 chip bet to knock out the straight draw. Button calls.The turn brings a 2. Now the 8 and 6 are suited in spades. I assume that there is a whole host of draws out there I push all in. Button calls.His hand is turned up J-3 spades ... river is a spade. I'm out. So ... tell me what I did wrong here.MattFirstly 150 into a 475 pot does not "knock out the straight draw". over 4:1 is good enough for essentially every draw possible - especially when there's another 900 in your stack to win.Secondly it can't be a rainbow flop if the 8 and 6 are both spades. If they were both spades then a call by J-3 spades on the flop was correct - due to your tiny bet.Thirdly you want the call on turn, you're 80% to win - it's not often you get your money in that good... Link to post Share on other sites
JMoney2681 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Alright dammit I apologise again ...I meant to say the 6 and the 2 are suited in spades.Go ahead and take your shots. I give up. I'm trying to ask a serious question and you just wanna **** with me so good ... have your fun.MattIt's not that, but how can we take you seriously if everytime you post you mess up on very vital information? Slow down and proof read before you send a new one out! Link to post Share on other sites
omahahilo 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Well was it a rainbow flop or not? Secondly, sometimes you still lose even when you did nothing wrong. Sometimes flush draws hit and you lose, and there is nothing you can do when donkeys make -EV situations that hit.Yes, I apologise, for being an idiot. The flop was rainbow and the 2 made the flush draw possible it suited the 6 I'm sorry.But sometimes ... I always lose to these draws. Seriously, in the last week I have played 25+ tournaments and have been knocked out of at least 18 of them by draws hitting on the river just like this.Matt Link to post Share on other sites
crocd99 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Alright dammit I apologise again ...I meant to say the 6 and the 2 are suited in spades.Go ahead and take your shots. I give up. I'm trying to ask a serious question and you just wanna **** with me so good ... have your fun.Matttake is easy man just joking around, but ok man i will give a serious answer. dont complain about these calls. you seriously want them like others have said. yeah it sucks when they seem to suck out over and over but in the long run it wont happen. when it does happen just shake it off and think about all the times in the long run they just end up donating chips too you.for some reason a lot of people only remember the bad beat that knocked them out like that hand you explained above. but if you really sit down and think about all your hands or get the hh from the tourney and all of you tournies you will see that it doesnt happen as often as you think but most of the times you just seem to not remember the times they dont hit because they arent suppose to. the only hands the stick out in your mind are the bad beats. Link to post Share on other sites
omahahilo 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Firstly 150 into a 475 pot does not "knock out the straight draw". over 4:1 is good enough for essentially every draw possible - especially when there's another 900 in your stack to win.Secondly it can't be a rainbow flop if the 8 and 6 are both spades. If they were both spades then a call by J-3 spades on the flop was correct - due to your tiny bet.Thirdly you want the call on turn, you're 80% to win - it's not often you get your money in that good...Well don't just tell me what I did wrong. Tell me and all of us exactly what you would have done then. Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Well this depends on pot odds and implied odds? LOL.Explain to me the implied odds you have after calling all in or calling an all in.. Link to post Share on other sites
_Great_Dane_ 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 No ... I hate when I get knocked out of tourney after tourney this way.I will set it up for you.I am UTG and I get AK suited I have 1250 in front of me. I raise to 200 with the blinds at 25-50. All fold to the button who calls with his stack of 1350. Both blinds fold.The flop comes down K-8-6 rainbow. I make a 150 chip bet to knock out the straight draw. Button calls.The turn brings a 2. Now the 8 and 6 are suited in spades. I assume that there is a whole host of draws out there I push all in. Button calls.His hand is turned up J-3 spades ... river is a spade. I'm out. So ... tell me what I did wrong here.MattThe first thing that you did wrong was say, "flop comes down K-8-6 rainbow ... Now the 8 and 6 are suited in spades ." The flop was either three different suits or it wasn't.But seriously, the second thing that you did wrong was assume that the other player was a smart and good player. After the turn card, they were a 4:1 underdog and they weren't getting close to 4:1 pot odds by calling your all in bet. Last week at the Taj, I lost two pots in cash games and one in a tournament playing it just like that. I knew what you meant in your original post. In the future, I'll be very careful if idiots are playing at my table. I did much better when there were a couple of pros at my table. Link to post Share on other sites
omahahilo 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Here's something to ponder too ...I want to be the donkey at the table. That's how I'll get better. I don't get any better playing with people who play badly. Everyone says they wanna play with the idiots because they will dump off more of their chips. Well suprise, I don't wanna play with them at all, I just can't find an online game without them.Matt Link to post Share on other sites
JMoney2681 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Yes, I apologise, for being an idiot. The flop was rainbow and the 2 made the flush draw possible it suited the 6 I'm sorry.But sometimes ... I always lose to these draws. Seriously, in the last week I have played 25+ tournaments and have been knocked out of at least 18 of them by draws hitting on the river just like this.MattThose don't make sense...But anyway. You're obviously just dealing with the ugly side of variance. It happens, you just have to deal with it. Honestly, be glad the donkeys make those calls, they can't win in the long run, its impossible. Link to post Share on other sites
WallstreetMSU 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 you dont want to find a level where people dont call with jack high flush draws with only one card to come.You cant ask for better things to happen....80% favorite with all your money in the middle, like many have said before, doesnt happen that often. you got unlucky, everyone does. But in the long run it will work out for you. Link to post Share on other sites
JMoney2681 0 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Explain to me the implied odds you have after calling all in or calling an all in..He didn't originally say calling all in. He intially said that THEY(villian) were pushing all in, not calling all in. sweetheart :heart:Thanks for caring... Link to post Share on other sites
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