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A Hypothetical Zeejustinish Situation

CobaltBlue

By CobaltBlue,
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CobaltBlue

CobaltBlue 662

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So let's say you sign up for an online MTT. Unbeknownst to you, your father also signs up for the same tournament. Halfway through the tournament, your dad calls and says, "Hey, we're in the same tournament. I saw you were doing well before, but now you're short-stacked. I hope you don't bust, but if you do, will you take over my decent stack? I've gotten the chips through being lucky and I know you'll play it better than I can. I also want to go to bed." So then you end up busting. Is it ethical to take over for your dad?

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vbnautilus

vbnautilus 48

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Gray area for sure, but I think the main issue comes when you can see more than one set of hole cards at time. If you bust out and then take over for someone you never have an unfair advantage really. On the other hand, let's say I ask two of my friends to play and tell them if I bust out I will take over -- just to give me additional opportunities. That would be wrong.

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DCJ001

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So let's say you sign up for an online MTT. Unbeknownst to you, your father also signs up for the same tournament. Halfway through the tournament, your dad calls and says, "Hey, we're in the same tournament. I saw you were doing well before, but now you're short-stacked. I hope you don't bust, but if you do, will you take over my decent stack? I've gotten the chips through being lucky and I know you'll play it better than I can. I also want to go to bed." So then you end up busting. Is it ethical to take over for your dad?
It's not a gray area. It's either ethical or it's not.Contact the site that you play on and they'll tell you what they think.
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clingfree

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It's been done before. I know there was an instance earlier this year where someone sold their sn to a ranked player with about 30 players left in the Sunday Million. The buyer (I've forgotten who it was) went on to win or chop the tournament. Stars has since made this a violation of the TOS. Not sure if this would qualify as the same situation tho.

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vbnautilus

vbnautilus 48

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It's not a gray area. It's either ethical or it's not.
You're saying there are no gray areas when it comes to ethics? "Ethical" is not the same as "within the TOS of the site you are playing on".
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Bizzle

Bizzle 0

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It's been done before. I know there was an instance earlier this year where someone sold their sn to a ranked player with about 30 players left in the Sunday Million. The buyer (I've forgotten who it was) went on to win or chop the tournament. Stars has since made this a violation of the TOS. Not sure if this would qualify as the same situation tho.
That was ActionJeff who bought it.Another similiar situation occurred when during a large TLB bet was going on between gank, gigabet and some others, Noah Boeken took over an account deep in the mil and won it, and used the points to propel himself to winning the bet.
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A_Bullets_A

A_Bullets_A 0

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I don't see why this would be unethical. I know your not supposed to share account n all that, but what's rly wrong/unethical with it?
Other players at the table that have been paying attention to his style might have got some reads based on his betting patterns. All of a sudden now those reads are gone and they don't even know it. It's definately unfair, but I can't say that I wouldn't do it in that same situation. I wouldn't have a real problem with it either. It's not like they planned on cheating. Like someone else said, it is kind of a grey area.
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dingas

dingas 0

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I'm pretty sure this is against the rules of the sites. I personally don't find it to be unethical, but it definitely is in violation of the established rules.

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James D

James D 0

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I only think it's unethical if it has been planned as part of a strategy. i.e - if someone is particularly good in the later stages, approaching the bubble, or as a tactic to throw people off any reads they may have on you.Also, I'm sure there have been a few threads in this forum where people needed someone to take over for them. Interestingly, I don't think the issue of it being unethical was ever brought up. Maybe it's only because you've directed the question a certain way, people are thinking there's anything unethical about it.

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CobaltBlue

CobaltBlue 662

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Also, I'm sure there have been a few threads in this forum where people needed someone to take over for them. Interestingly, I don't think the issue of it being unethical was ever brought up. Maybe it's only because you've directed the question a certain way, people are thinking there's anything unethical about it.
Yeah, but usually those "take over for me" threads weren't for someone that was playing the same tournament.On an "unrelated" note, "my dad" got 7th in a pretty decent size tournament tonight. =P
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Jam-Fly

Jam-Fly 8

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I only think it's unethical if it has been planned as part of a strategy. i.e - if someone is particularly good in the later stages, approaching the bubble, or as a tactic to throw people off any reads they may have on you.Also, I'm sure there have been a few threads in this forum where people needed someone to take over for them. Interestingly, I don't think the issue of it being unethical was ever brought up. Maybe it's only because you've directed the question a certain way, people are thinking there's anything unethical about it.
Yeah, thats a good point. I think very few people have a practical problem with it, but by the looks of things, it is against the rules.Also, IIRC, didn't DreamClown (Daniel's 1k/2k LHE opponent) change user often? DN even referenced it in his blogs and it was never brought up for being against the rules.
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Spence

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It's not a gray area. It's either ethical or it's not.Contact the site that you play on and they'll tell you what they think.
Hmm, yeah theres more grey area than back and white in ethics.
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Vick12

Vick12 0

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On an "unrelated" note, "my dad" got 7th in a pretty decent size tournament tonight. =P
Wow...tell "dad" wtg!!!!!!!
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David_Nicoson

David_Nicoson 1

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Would they let you do it in a live event? You got your answer.
I'm not so sure it's the same. It's an unenforceable rule online.
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Vick12

Vick12 0

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I'm not so sure it's the same. It's an unenforceable rule online.
I beg to differ. If a situation were to arise where Player A. WAS playing a mtt then "handed off" to Player B., they could EASILY enforce their rule. UNLESS the 2 players were playing from the same IP address to begin w/, if the site were to investigate they could easily determine if that was still the same player that started the mtt. Bizzle mentioned it earlier...Action Jeff bought another players seat deep in the Sunday Million. At that time, Stars did NOT have any rules against it. Since then, they have a clearky written rule that prohibits you from "passing off" you seat to another player after the mtt begins. If they did/do investigate a potential situation, it would be EASY to determine if the player had passed it off by checking the IP addresses.Now...if Player A. and Player B. are in same house together and just switch spots on the CPU...THAT is unenforceable.
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Vick12

Vick12 0

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*Ahem*JJProdigy's Gran.Same discussion happened with that situation.Amusingly, that is my mate's SN on FullTilt.EDIT:http://www.pokerkingblog.com/2006/02/18/th...digy-situation/^^^In case you haven't heard of it.
The JJ situation is different. JJ signed up for the same mtt UNDER 2 DIFF NAMES. He later used the "my grandma" excuse, but this wasn't a case where JJ took over for his grandma. Speaking of JJProdigy...any news on him? I mean...I have NO DOUBT he plays under a diff name now, but has anyone heard anything on him?
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David_Nicoson

David_Nicoson 1

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I beg to differ. If a situation were to arise where Player A. WAS playing a mtt then "handed off" to Player B., they could EASILY enforce their rule. UNLESS the 2 players were playing from the same IP address to begin w/, if the site were to investigate they could easily determine if that was still the same player that started the mtt.
Exactly. It's impossible to enforce against people who are doing it as a strategy but easy to enforce against people who are doing it for convenience.So I think enforcing the rule is unfair.
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