Poker Bots

[socdave01 0]

So after reading about the bots on Party, I headed over to a website that someone has found, winholdem.net. I had no idea how many people there were that take interest in this stuff. I started brousing their forums, and i was disgusted at the way people approach this stuff. Every single person there acts as if they are not doing anything wrong. I also found that they have a separate forum for team play. After reading some posts, I decided to sign up and I posted asking if anyone finds what they do to be illegal? The support from the site posted the following:you should play hold'em in the manner that increases your quality of life.building a machine that can win money is a very positive experience.and not just because of the money but also because you built it - there are a lot of hobbyists here who are gratified with the process of building a bot. obviously everyone wants to win - but the process of building and tweaking is very appealing to a certain type of temperment.probably the central appeal of a winning bot is that it can be leveraged across many sites and tables - the very serious botters have a mindset similar to a businessman.as far as ethics is concerned, it is ridiculous to expect that online poker players are not going to try and use their computers to help them play the game better. it is in the best interest of your opponents if you decline to do something that might give you an edge and/or reduce your losses. it is in your best interest to increase your edge without losing quality of life. another person said "do the casinos care about ethics when they cheat you?"Now, I'm not old enough to go to a casino (one more year) but I never thought that they cheated anyone out of money, but that they played games that gave them the biggest edge. I have absolutely zero respect for any of these guys. They are all saying how rewarding it feels to create a bot that can actually beat the game, and thats what makes it ok. I guess what I'm trying to say is watch out. From what I can tell, there are thousands of people out there using bots to play poker, so be careful. If you feel that you are playing against a bot, let the site know right away. Sure they might not do much about it, but the more people we can get caught the better

[Turbo 0]

My bot is awesome.Quit looking at my bot.

[....Ian.... 0]

yea thats pretty shi.ttyit was mentioned here that most big sites can see what programs you are running while you are logged in. it just seems liek to me taht theses same sites should be able to stop any form of bot

[oldirtyharry 0]

I can see where these guys are coming from actually. After reading a lot of posts on the forum, it appears the vast majority of winholdem users are BIG losers for months and months. It can take years to configure the bot, and when you finally turn it into a consistent winner I am sure it's a great feeling. I guess it comes down to your own personal ethics. To be honest if Winholdem was cheaper and I had a busload of free time I would give it a shot. But I am a greedy bastad when it comes to poker and would love to make money 24/7 on the low NL tables off the donks while I still can.

[cu in 4years Dan 1]

yea thats pretty shi.ttyit was mentioned here that most big sites can see what programs you are running while you are logged in. it just seems liek to me taht theses same sites should be able to stop any form of bot

they cant see anything, you only give them access to a certain port used for transfering data from your computer to ther server then back again.if anyone belives they can see anything else on your computer then they are just suckers to the good marketing...... dam scanners

[socdave01 0]

oldirtyharry, just because someone loses money doesnt make it legal. they are still using an outside source that is not allowed to get an edge. If i spend years training to be a professional baseball player, trying to get to the majors, im going to feel cheated when that guy who uses steroids gets the spot over me. It's the exact same thing here. I can spend years studying and learning and playing poker, but I know that I probably wont be able to beat a computer in the long run, because over time I'm going to make mistakes. We all do. We get tired or hungry or distracted, computers feel none of this

[devhdcdevhdc 0]

yea thats pretty shi.ttyit was mentioned here that most big sites can see what programs you are running while you are logged in. it just seems liek to me taht theses same sites should be able to stop any form of bot

Yeah, there's a program that checks the running processes on the computer, mainly to stop people from multi-accounting. In my mind that's a HUGE invasion of privacy though, and even so, the program doing the check is quite easy to fool either way, with that said i'd like to point out that i'd never dream of botting or running multi-accounts, especially now seeing as how it affected zeejustin (total of 103,545$ confiscated, and lost respect within the poker-community)Edit: This only exists with some clients, not all

[DDiabolical 0]

oldirtyharry, just because someone loses money doesnt make it legal. they are still using an outside source that is not allowed to get an edge. If i spend years training to be a professional baseball player, trying to get to the majors, im going to feel cheated when that guy who uses steroids gets the spot over me. It's the exact same thing here. I can spend years studying and learning and playing poker, but I know that I probably wont be able to beat a computer in the long run, because over time I'm going to make mistakes. We all do. We get tired or hungry or distracted, computers feel none of this

Your example is completely off. It's more like an ex-baseball player becoming a trainer and the guy he trains gets the spot over you.A bot doesn't have mystical powers. If you're better than it you'll beat it. The bot is only as good as its' programmer.If you can't beat the bot then you couldn't beat its' programmer either.

[mrdannyg 274]

Your example is completely off. It's more like an ex-baseball player becoming a trainer and the guy he trains gets the spot over you.A bot doesn't have mystical powers. If you're better than it you'll beat it. The bot is only as good as its' programmer.If you can't beat the bot then you couldn't beat its' programmer either.

true, but i wouldn't have to play the programmer (probably), since he wouldn't be able to play as many tables/hours as he currently is.i think bots and of course team play are unethical, and that Pokertracker is not. but frankly, i have difficulty rationalizing why PT is fine and bots are not. There are reasons of course that apply to bots and not PT, but is PT really that ethical? I use it, but i'm not sure.

[socdave01 0]

While my example might be off, I'm sure that there are people out there willing to sell their program for the right price. Someone could just show up knowing nothing about poker, pay the right price, and have the program

[scottyno 0]

read the teaming section they have and laugh at how they try to justify team play as not cheating, as if just because its hard to monitor and catch team players that its not cheating.

[No_Neck 0]

this is why I play stud and stud 08

[oldirtyharry 0]

While my example might be off, I'm sure that there are people out there willing to sell their program for the right price. Someone could just show up knowing nothing about poker, pay the right price, and have the program

That is true, and is one reason why the whole poker bot thing is a bit scary. My point is as someone stated above however: If I could program a bot to play as I do when I cannot play I personally see nothing wrong. Technically, if you can't beat my bot you wouldn't be able to beat me. The only advantage besides playing time I would be getting is the ability to avoid tilting. The fact that it is considered cheating by poker sites and by many of you really does not bother me all that much. Morally and Ethically I do not see it as being that much different from datamining partypokers tables for hours and hours at a time, which is what many of you do.The main point is you would have to take my word that I would never sell the bot and would always keep it in my possesion. I am positive there are people out there attempting to perfect their bots for the sole purpose of selling them off. As I said, I would use any bot I made for personal use only. I feel I would really enjoy turning the bot slowly into a winner. I know that isn't going to sit well with many of you, but that's just the way it is. If any of you have looked into the type of programming that goes into the winholdem program you know that it is not the easiest thing in the world to do. In fact, I would be suprised if the average online player could even turn a bot into a winner.

[DonkSlayer 1]

I PWN BOTSIf your game is tricky, strong, and adapting, you will cream a bot, especially if you play NL any higher than .25-.50 blinds. Period. Even the best player cannot program a bot to adapt, make moves at the right time with a good read, etc.

[oldirtyharry 0]

I PWN BOTSIf your game is tricky, strong, and adapting, you will cream a bot, especially if you play NL any higher than .25-.50 blinds. Period. Even the best player cannot program a bot to adapt, make moves at the right time with a good read, etc.

I completely agree.

[troyomac 0]

I PWN BOTSIf your game is tricky, strong, and adapting, you will cream a bot, especially if you play NL any higher than .25-.50 blinds. Period. Even the best player cannot program a bot to adapt, make moves at the right time with a good read, etc.

yes but in limit...you can create a bot to always make the most mathematical play, which means yes, it would lose out on plays based on reads, but it would still make money by making the correct play each time. (provided the programmer knows what s/he's doing)

[jowest 0]

yes but in limit...you can create a bot to always make the most mathematical play, which means yes, it would lose out on plays based on reads, but it would still make money by making the correct play each time. (provided the programmer knows what s/he's doing)

I feel using a bot is unethical. That being said........I also do not want to stop others from using them. I scope out bots and sit and play with them on purpose. Think of it this way. They are programmed to steal pots at certain points by betting 90% of their stack after a check on the flop and a check on the river heads up. You can trap so easily and make SO MUCH MONEY it hurts. Bots can not be "programmed" to play poker. They can however be programmed to play cards. The human aspect is removed when you play against a bot therefore you can steal 80% of the pots. Just remember if the bot fires two value bullets, let it go.

[amarillotg 0]

i lost 25k to a bot the other nite playing on party.this bot was making some sick reads. it even turned my microwave on and off just to piss me off and make me tilt.

[Butcho22 0]

Your example is completely off. It's more like an ex-baseball player becoming a trainer and the guy he trains gets the spot over you.A bot doesn't have mystical powers. If you're better than it you'll beat it. The bot is only as good as its' programmer.If you can't beat the bot then you couldn't beat its' programmer either.

That is so not true is hilarious. Just because he configures his bot to act a certain way, DOES NOT mean that he would always make the same plays over and over again if he was sitting there at the computer. You don't actually believe that do you?

[profxavier9 0]

if you cant beat bots you cant beat a solid player

[Mercury69 3]

So after reading about the bots on Party, I headed over to a website that someone has found, winholdem.net. I had no idea how many people there were that take interest in this stuff. I started brousing their forums, and i was disgusted at the way people approach this stuff. Every single person there acts as if they are not doing anything wrong. I also found that they have a separate forum for team play. After reading some posts, I decided to sign up and I posted asking if anyone finds what they do to be illegal? The support from the site posted the following:you should play hold'em in the manner that increases your quality of life.building a machine that can win money is a very positive experience.and not just because of the money but also because you built it - there are a lot of hobbyists here who are gratified with the process of building a bot. obviously everyone wants to win - but the process of building and tweaking is very appealing to a certain type of temperment.probably the central appeal of a winning bot is that it can be leveraged across many sites and tables - the very serious botters have a mindset similar to a businessman.as far as ethics is concerned, it is ridiculous to expect that online poker players are not going to try and use their computers to help them play the game better. it is in the best interest of your opponents if you decline to do something that might give you an edge and/or reduce your losses. it is in your best interest to increase your edge without losing quality of life. another person said "do the casinos care about ethics when they cheat you?"Now, I'm not old enough to go to a casino (one more year) but I never thought that they cheated anyone out of money, but that they played games that gave them the biggest edge. I have absolutely zero respect for any of these guys. They are all saying how rewarding it feels to create a bot that can actually beat the game, and thats what makes it ok. I guess what I'm trying to say is watch out. From what I can tell, there are thousands of people out there using bots to play poker, so be careful. If you feel that you are playing against a bot, let the site know right away. Sure they might not do much about it, but the more people we can get caught the better

My bot sux my schwang while it pwns 5/10 NL... j/kHonestly, this bot stuff is disgusting. The justifications people come up with that support cheating is revolting. This whole world has gone to ****.

[Butcho22 0]

I feel using a bot is unethical. That being said........I also do not want to stop others from using them. I scope out bots and sit and play with them on purpose. Think of it this way. They are programmed to steal pots at certain points by betting 90% of their stack after a check on the flop and a check on the river heads up. You can trap so easily and make SO MUCH MONEY it hurts. Bots can not be "programmed" to play poker. They can however be programmed to play cards. The human aspect is removed when you play against a bot therefore you can steal 80% of the pots. Just remember if the bot fires two value bullets, let it go.

This bring up another interesting point. Also, couldn't somebody just hack into the bot programmers computer and figure out his codes and stuff? I don't know too much about computers, but it seems possible. You would need to indentify that person using the bot, which would be easier because they have that gay forum Seriously though.....FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO AGREE WITH THESE MORONS AND LOOK AT IT LIKE SOME KIND OF PERSONAL "CHALLENGE" TO MAKE A WINNNING BOT, YOU ARE A LOSER. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PLAYING A VIDEO GAME ONLINE, WHERE EVERYBODY WANTS TO GET THE MOST POINTS. YOU ARE MESSING WITH REAL PEOPLE, AND REAL MONEY. Within a year, every major site will have something like the box that pops up, and asks you to type in the letters you see.

[scottyno 0]

anyone interested in signing up for that site just to spam it a bit?

[jowest 0]

This bring up another interesting point. Also, couldn't somebody just hack into the bot programmers computer and figure out his codes and stuff? I don't know too much about computers, but it seems possible. You would need to indentify that person using the bot, which would be easier because they have that gay forum Seriously though.....FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO AGREE WITH THESE MORONS AND LOOK AT IT LIKE SOME KIND OF PERSONAL "CHALLENGE" TO MAKE A WINNNING BOT, YOU ARE A LOSER. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PLAYING A VIDEO GAME ONLINE, WHERE EVERYBODY WANTS TO GET THE MOST POINTS. YOU ARE MESSING WITH REAL PEOPLE, AND REAL MONEY. Within a year, every major site will have something like the box that pops up, and asks you to type in the letters you see.

[Butcho22 0]

anyone interested in signing up for that site just to spam it a bit?

You know i'm down....I should have my first post up within an hour. Not going to share what my screen name is but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out. I bet i get banned within 24 hours