Do You Ever...?

[SirJobsalot 0]

I have a question that came to me after seeing somebody in another thread get all kinds of flamed for calling with 10c 4c because it was his lucky number.Does everybody (that is, everybody who can be considered a good poker player) always play just the odds and position? I mean, I'm pretty much a poker newb and I saw a post here the other week which had somebody asking if pushing with a certain hand (I forget which) in a certain position (I forget which) would be 'out of line'.Surely if you have a hand you like the looks of, a hand that can make you money, position and the odds can be put to one side?Anyway, thoughts welcome. I hope this made some sense.

[Man_With_An_Axe 0]

Over time, playing 'hunches' or going with your gut (or favorite number) is a losing proposition. Sure, 10-6 can flop a full house as often as K-A - but by chosing when to put your money in the middle, you have more control over the gamble... Otherwise you might as well play roulette.That being said, I've played K8 every time it was dealt to me one day at the MGM when I remembered dreaming about it the night before... Nothing wrong with mixing up your game to keep observant people off-balance.

[TML28 0]

I have a question that came to me after seeing somebody in another thread get all kinds of flamed for calling with 10c 4c because it was his lucky number.Does everybody (that is, everybody who can be considered a good poker player) always play just the odds and position? I mean, I'm pretty much a poker newb and I saw a post here the other week which had somebody asking if pushing with a certain hand (I forget which) in a certain position (I forget which) would be 'out of line'.Surely if you have a hand you like the looks of, a hand that can make you money, position and the odds can be put to one side?Anyway, thoughts welcome. I hope this made some sense.

QUICK get a FLAME Retardant SUIT!

[MasterLJ 0]

I have a question that came to me after seeing somebody in another thread get all kinds of flamed for calling with 10c 4c because it was his lucky number.Does everybody (that is, everybody who can be considered a good poker player) always play just the odds and position? I mean, I'm pretty much a poker newb and I saw a post here the other week which had somebody asking if pushing with a certain hand (I forget which) in a certain position (I forget which) would be 'out of line'.Surely if you have a hand you like the looks of, a hand that can make you money, position and the odds can be put to one side?Anyway, thoughts welcome. I hope this made some sense.

Every time you make a bad play in poker, you lose money. I don't care if you win an 8 way all-in with 27os, it's a losing play long term.Some players get confused by "crappy" hands though. 67 suited actually plays extremely well in multi-way pots and is often #1 or #2 in pre-flop equity due to people sharing cards. In fact, if you are up against AA it is better equity wise to have 67s than to have KK.

[Brisco 0]

It is not the playing of the odd hand. It is calling with it is the mistake. IMHO.I do not advocate that type of play at all, but if you are going to do it RAISE with it DO NOT CALL a raise with it. And do it with position, at least you have a feeling for where you are at.If you decide that you must play a certain "lucky number" type sub optimal hand every time you get it you will certainly lose money with it.My lucky number is 11 so i play aces every time they are dealt to me.

[FourFlusher 0]

If I don't play K3, I can't dance.

[turd ferguson 1]

That being said, I've played K8 every time it was dealt to me one day at the MGM when I remembered dreaming about it the night before... Nothing wrong with mixing up your game to keep observant people off-balance.

I like how you justified doing the same thing the OP was advocating by referring to it as "mixing up your play." Look, starting hands aren't very important in NLHE if your post flop play is extremely superior to that of your opponnents. Playing marginal hands preflop can be profitable if you do it for the right reasons. Playing a hunch or a lucky number is not one of them.

[nell789 0]

Every time you make a bad play in poker, you lose money. I don't care if you win an 8 way all-in with 27os, it's a losing play long term.Some players get confused by "crappy" hands though. 67 suited actually plays extremely well in multi-way pots and is often #1 or #2 in pre-flop equity due to people sharing cards. In fact, if you are up against AA it is better equity wise to have 67s than to have KK.

That's true about the 67s, but if you play that hand, you have to be good enough to play it properly. Often a new player who plays a hand like that will flop top pair, or middle pair, or some sort of weak draw and won't know when to let it go. That's when hands like that get you in trouble.

[Yoda 1]

heh, my poker playing buddy often presents poker questions to me like this..."if you are in such and such position with xy and this guy blah blah blahs, what do you do?"And my response is always "How much have I had to drink?"Funny, yes. But a valid response. My point is, you can do anything in poker - there are bad plays at the right time, good plays at the wrong time. There are +EV plays and -EV plays. Do you always want to make the best +EV play? Sure you do, if you are care about winning $$. Is it ok to stray from that? HELL YES. It's a flexible game. Weird plays can effect table image, cause tilt, or they can backfire in your face. But thats what makes the game interesing and fun.So play your 10-4 sooooted if you get a hunch! Just don't come crying to us with bad beats when you go busto to a higher flush

[nhlfan 0]

Every time you make a bad play in poker, you lose money. I don't care if you win an 8 way all-in with 27os, it's a losing play long term.Some players get confused by "crappy" hands though. 67 suited actually plays extremely well in multi-way pots and is often #1 or #2 in pre-flop equity due to people sharing cards. In fact, if you are up against AA it is better equity wise to have 67s than to have KK.

Of course, playing 27os is a losing play long term, IF YOU PLAY IT EVERY TIME YOU GET IT DEALT TO YOU. I think a lot of players will play a crap hand every once in awhile and get lucky. I will play a less than premium hand, especially if I have won a few pots with premium hands. If I hit no flop, it's an insta-fold. But after winning 3 pots with A-A, A-K, and Q-Q, showing a 10-2os after hitting a boat sure can throw a wrench into your opponents gameplan. Just my 2 cents.

[MasterLJ 0]

Of course, playing 27os is a losing play long term, IF YOU PLAY IT EVERY TIME YOU GET IT DEALT TO YOU. I think a lot of players will play a crap hand every once in awhile and get lucky. I will play a less than premium hand, especially if I have won a few pots with premium hands. If I hit no flop, it's an insta-fold. But after winning 3 pots with A-A, A-K, and Q-Q, showing a 10-2os after hitting a boat sure can throw a wrench into your opponents gameplan. Just my 2 cents.

No, you do not have to play 27os every time for it to be a losing play. If you play it once, it's a loser. And for every other time you do it, it's more of a loser.And there is an enormous difference between calling and raising with crap.I will never fault anyone for pushing all-in with any 2 cards. The circumstances can be right where it doesn't matter what you are holding.It's calling that's the problem. If you call huge raises with things like 4T suited, it's just stupid. Hell, things like KT are even worse, but I digress.On the other other hand, I do not like absolutes in poker either. I've made a correct call of an all-in with 25os. Blinds were 12/24k I had about 100k and was in BB. UTG goes all-in for 27k, SB folds. There's now 63k in the pot, I have to call 3k. 21 to 1 on my money. If he had AA, I'd still have made the correct call.

[Man_With_An_Axe 0]

I like how you justified doing the same thing the OP was advocating by referring to it as "mixing up your play." Look, starting hands aren't very important in NLHE if your post flop play is extremely superior to that of your opponnents. Playing marginal hands preflop can be profitable if you do it for the right reasons. Playing a hunch or a lucky number is not one of them.

NLHE? Sure - it can be costly... But I was playing Hold Em, running the table, and dammit - I even dreamed the suits that they'd be (and they were, the first time I got them).As for NLHE, I always laugh at the kid who plays once every couple rotations - who never gets paid off unless its by a complete fool who doesn't realize he's not entering in a pot w/o top 5-hand (and they're pretty shrewd where I play). I'd never advocate throwing money away by calling obvious strength with a crap hand, but at the same time I want to be seen as someone who's not only coming in with premium hands. If I have to put in a small bet, so be it.

[MasterLJ 0]

NLHE? Sure - it can be costly... But I was playing Hold Em, running the table, and dammit - I even dreamed the suits that they'd be (and they were, the first time I got them).As for NLHE, I always laugh at the kid who plays once every couple rotations - who never gets paid off unless its by a complete fool who doesn't realize he's not entering in a pot w/o top 5-hand (and they're pretty shrewd where I play). I'd never advocate throwing money away by calling obvious strength with a crap hand, but at the same time I want to be seen as someone who's not only coming in with premium hands. If I have to put in a small bet, so be it.

You have to realize that the typical live table is comprised of 3-4 people trying to make money, and 5-6 gamblers... the balance of the table are either drunk or partially retarded. I played a 10 hour session where one kid was clearly an absolute rock. The worst hand I saw him show down with was AQos. People still called him. He still cleaned up.So laugh at that kid all you want, but he's making money live... a lot of money. Plus the good rocks take advantage of it. I play very tight live, but I also drop a bluff or two to keep things interesting and to gain an extra $20-30 when I bet out the flop and everyone folds after a pf raise with THE MIGHTY J8os!11!™

[Scanner313 0]

Surely if you have a hand you like the looks of, a hand that can make you money, position and the odds can be put to one side?

NO, NO, NO!!! NEVER, EVER deviate from optimal strategy. EVER! I don't care who you're playing, how well you know them, what position, how much you're up, or whether it's a one time thing that you're contemplating. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER play non-optimal hands! That's right, I said NEVER!If you do, you will be sentenced to hell, and be forced to play strip poker with Stu Unger every day, with your bankroll being your skin. Every time you lose they will peel off another layer.Trust me on this. The forum elders and wisemen have made this very clear in another post that I had some minor affiliation with. NEVER!P.S. I don't believe in hell, so I'm pretty sure Stu isn't there. Just wanted to make that clear for any Stu fans who might have taken this the wrong way. God forbid someone should say anything inappropriate here.

[SweetDaddyFreak 0]

If I don't play K3, I can't dance.

I swear i was thinking the same thing after opening this threadThis is the lone exception to playing "bad" cards. If you dont play the K3, you cant win with the K3and then you have 0% equity in dancing

[Man_With_An_Axe 0]

You have to realize that the typical live table is comprised of 3-4 people trying to make money, and 5-6 gamblers... the balance of the table are either drunk or partially retarded. I played a 10 hour session where one kid was clearly an absolute rock. The worst hand I saw him show down with was AQos. People still called him. He still cleaned up.So laugh at that kid all you want, but he's making money live... a lot of money.

Depending on where/what limit you're at, I'd have to agree with you. I just based my statement on the last session I had - mid-stakes NL with some pretty sharp characters. The kid was far too passive, and the table knew it.Plus, play at a table long enough - or with the same people long enough - and you know the ones who like to limp in with a monster hand... If I can get in to see a flop cheaply, I'm willing to gamble on 2 6's flopping when I'm holding one. Depending on the table, I'm oftentimes confident enough in my post-flop play to get away... Guess that makes me one of the 5-6 gamblers at the table eh?

[anselm 0]

This is a very amusing donkey thread. We should just paste everything into that huge donkey quote thread. You are the people that piss me off by cracking my KK with J3s. Give me some bullshit about pot odds, or you mis-clicked, or just straight up apologize for a momentary brain fart. Just don't give me that "I had a hunch" asscockery.

Playing marginal hands preflop can be profitable if you do it for the right reasons. Playing a hunch or a lucky number is not one of them.

Probably the only worthwhile thing said in this thread. Most of you are just talking past each other. No one is saying everything but AA is trash and nobody is saying there's never a time to play 72o. But doing so because you had a ****ing dream about it last night is absolutely retarded. Call a fishcake a fishcake for crying out loud. Too many of you trying to softplay what are obviously just the brayings of donkeys.

[timwakefield 68]

It's calling that's the problem. If you call huge raises with things like 4T suited, it's just stupid. Hell, things like KT are even worse, but I digress.

Yesterday I'm late in an sng, M of maybe 5, I push with 7 5. Opponent calls off nearly half his stack with J2.Me: You called with J2???Him: You raised with 75???Me: You can raise with anything!!!!! You can't call with anything!!!!!Him: Huh?Me: Nevermind, well played.

[turd ferguson 1]

Probably the only worthwhile thing said in this thread.

Thank you. This is true for about 90% of the threads in which I post.Edit: Good post by the way.

[EvilGN 0]

IMO, its easy to see playing certain cards because they are your favorite, or you dreampt about em, or the bet is your favorite number that has not been played yet at the table is -EV, no one can argue otherwise. In Skalanski's book he talks about picking specific cards to make bluffs with in order to counter a good players play, it makes your bluffs random. But his examples were all situations where the other player could not re raise you, (with presumably a better hand that is unbluffable) so even picking a random hand to always play in NLHE, and playing it like its the nuts is still -EV in the long run IMO. I think the best way to "mix" it up as some put it, is to limp in/or call a small raise once and while/ or make a raise once and awhile with marginal hands when you think there is a good possibility you can bluff the remaining people out of the pot. Thats a pretty general statement, but it somewhat can relate to Small Ball, or even say Gus H's type of play. To answer the OP, NO, you should not make plays like that. calling 6.5XBB with junk is a losing proposition...... but its your money, you play your cards how you see fit...who are we to tell you how to play

[FoxwoodsPro 0]

Some players get confused by "crappy" hands though. 67 suited actually plays extremely well in multi-way pots and is often #1 or #2 in pre-flop equity due to people sharing cards. In fact, if you are up against AA it is better equity wise to have 67s than to have KK.

you sir are a genius...donkey

[MasterLJ 0]

you sir are a genius...donkey

Use this: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_odds/texas_holdem/index.phpAA: 76.81%67s: 22.87%Tie: 0.32%AA: 81.06KK: 18.55Tie: 0.38%Do you ever shut that God-forsaken pie hole?EDIT: More:AK: 30.15%KQ: 19.2%KJ: 16.83%67s: 33.17

[FoxwoodsPro 0]

it was a joke donkey.... of course 6 -7 is better than KK vs AA.....I forgot I cant be sarcastic because most posters on this site are so bad they wont get it..... I have dreams of Jen Harman

[fleung22 1]

I wish there was a running "donkey" count for FoxwoodsPro. I'm curious as to the DONKS to post ratio for this guy.Oh...and this is Jen Harman:...and this is Jen Harmon ya DONK:

[FoxwoodsPro 0]

im sorry I do not know what you are speaking of???