a little conversation with my friend/fish.

[PatrickBateman 0]

We'll just call him fishPatrickbatemn: Just explain to me why you didn't raise with jacks UTGFish: what do you mean?Fish: when?Patrickbatemn: Your first hand under the gun with pocket jacks, why didn't you raiseFish: cause slow play, try to get chips?Patrickbatemn: ............Fish: i did raise on 4th and riverFish: just not on flopPatrickbatemn: no goodFish: plus it was like 2nd hand..everyone would just foldFish: people play tight as hell in beginningPatrickbatemn: ......Fish: ended up gettin almos 300 chips out of itFish: when if i raised on flop would have got nothingPatrickbatemn: you don't know you're gonna get 300Patrickbatemn: raise pre flop get blinds if anythingPatrickbatemn: especially UTGFish: ?..everyone would have folded, i would have got like 25 chipsFish: wowFish: which play was better?Patrickbatemn: HAHAHHAHAFish: what was there, like 3 ppl playing?Fish: i would have got 40, sorryPatrickbatemn: terrible logicFish: with ppFish: noFish: would i raise in normal poker, yesPatrickbatemn: .......Fish: told u, i am slow playing EVERYTHING in ppFish: it is too riggedPatrickbatemn: LOL that's such a bad/wrong ideaFish: haha...alright...why is slow playing pocket jacks that bad?Patrickbatemn: because someone can limp with ace 2 and beat you?Patrickbatemn: king 2Patrickbatemn: queen 2Fish: so...i raise it, 3 ppl playing fold, and i get nothingFIsh: i knew they would fold..instead i end up gettin chips out of some fishermanYou can't logic with them

[pipes42 0]

why do u try to logic is what I try to figure out from people??? perplexes me when people try to correct or prove something to so-called fish

[PatrickBateman 0]

why do u try to logic is what I try to figure out from people??? perplexes me when people try to correct or prove something to so-called fish

He's still arguin' with me.Patrickbatemn: I bet you everyone in the FCP says it's a bad playFish: haha..good thing, i hear they are the final sayFish: in all that is pokerPatrickbatemn: go read your super system, see what your idol saysFish: every not care what other people think? i do it all the time, makes you differentFish: sheepPatrickbatemn: No, i like to make as many smart playsPatrickbatemn: as possiblePatrickbatemn: you didn't make a smart play and got luckyFish: is winning with jacks lucky?Fish: i think thats a pretty good starting handPatrickbatemn: when you limp in UTGPatrickbatemn: and get 3 callersPatrickbatemn: chances are you ARENT gonna hit a jack

[allinbluff35 0]

I read the first line, I don't raise JJ UTG all the time.

[PatrickBateman 0]

I read the first line, I don't raise JJ UTG all the time.

Why wouldn't you?

[pipes42 0]

u quote me, then don't answer me....let me ask another question... do you want him ( alleged fish) to start raising those jacks and playing proper according to you, or do you want him to play badly which should be more profitable for you???also, for mentioning super systems, guess you havent seen some of Caro's tips when he states, common sense, not to try and correct bad play, unless you have some sort of ego problem where you have to show that you know how to play better.....

[PatrickBateman 0]

I would always, but the ONLY time I think it's cool not to is if you want to go over the top of some idiot that's been pushing.

[PatrickBateman 0]

u quote me, then don't answer me....let me ask another question... do you want him ( alleged fish) to start raising those jacks and playing proper according to you, or do you want him to play badly which should be more profitable for you???also, for mentioning super systems, guess you havent seen some of Caro's tips when he states, common sense, not to try and correct bad play, unless you have some sort of ego problem where you have to show that you know how to play better.....

Because he's my friend, that should be sufficent for your first question.I want him to play and get better, notice how I said friend/fish in the title.Sorry if I want to help my friend get better at poker, I'm not a greedy *******. Besides, I follow Helmuth's book.

[allinbluff35 0]

I read the first line, I don't raise JJ UTG all the time.

Why wouldn't you?

depends on the game conditions

[PatrickBateman 0]

Well let me give all the variables...It was the first hand in a tournament.I doubt he had ANY notes on any of the players and of couse he had not been able to see their play. I still don't agree with the play.

[pipes42 0]

my bad i guess, didn't understand the whole friend/ fish.... my friend who is a fish... okand the hellmuth thing, i've read his book also... even daniel's review says you'll get crushed in cash games following it... i.e. him getting crushed on ub tonight at 150/300 (previous threads)

[allinbluff35 0]

Well let me give all the variables...It was the first hand in a tournament.I doubt he had ANY notes on any of the players and of couse he had not been able to see their play. I still don't agree with the play.

meh, might raise/might call

[PatrickBateman 0]

my bad i guess, didn't understand the whole friend/ fish.... my friend who is a fish... okand the hellmuth thing, i've read his book also... even daniel's review says you'll get crushed in cash games following it... i.e. him getting crushed on ub tonight at 150/300 (previous threads)

I've done well at the local casino, but there's nobody playing really good poker out there. I appreciate people that play loose, though.

[Guest XXEddie]

This is designed to OP.....took this from Supsystem 2 but whateverIf someone took a dog, and tried to teach it to meow, you would considered him crazy, correctWhats funny is that you are doing the excat same thing here by trying to wake up a fish

[PatrickBateman 0]

This is designed to OP.....took this from Supsystem 2 but whateverIf someone took a dog, and tried to teach it to meow, you would considered him crazy, correctWhats funny is that you are doing the excat same thing here by trying to wake up a fish

That's fine, just trying to help a friend better his game. I don't play HIM for money, so it's of no consequence to me.

[Spademan 94]

I'd raise, but your reasoning is all wrong.I WANT A2 to call.I'd raise for information, not to get A2 to fold.

[monoatomic 0]

I actually would somewhat agree with your friend here, but for a totally different reason.First hand of a tourney limping pocket J's UTG isn't bad. He limps gets a caller or two, flop comes down 7 10 4. He bets all folds he picks up the pot.He raises preflop to what...60-100. Gets 2 callers. Flop comes down K Q 3. What's he to do now?He raises to 100 guy in late position moves all in. What now?I usually take a slow approach at the start of a tourney, play tight and try and outlast the 5 or 6 donks that go all in trying to win the tournament in one hand. Once I get down to top 5, then I start stealing, playing alittle looser.So in effect I agree with your friend about limping J's but for completely different reasons then online poker is rigged/I am R l33t.

[PatrickBateman 0]

I actually would somewhat agree with your friend here, but for a totally different reason.First hand of a tourney limping pocket J's UTG isn't bad. He limps gets a caller or two, flop comes down 7 10 4. He bets all folds he picks up the pot.He raises preflop to what...60-100. Gets 2 callers. Flop comes down K Q 3. What's he to do now?He raises to 100 guy in late position moves all in. What now?I usually take a slow approach at the start of a tourney, play tight and try and outlast the 5 or 6 donks that go all in trying to win the tournament in one hand. Once I get down to top 5, then I start stealing, playing alittle looser.So in effect I agree with your friend about limping J's but for completely different reasons then online poker is rigged/I am R l33t.

I would raise 3 times the BB and at the first stage that's only 45. I don't see a problem with raising with a powerful hand.

[cmak3687 0]

limping utg with jj the first hand of a tournament isnt a bad play... its certainly not a common or typical play but its really not that bad. I mean its not that hard to get away from, and if someone limps iwth say a hand like AT, and flops top pair theres a good chance you can extract some good value, but if the ace comes up theres a good chance you wont lose that much. Also if you make a significant raise utg with JJ, and you get raised, your almost certainly beat or your up against AK, so limping in that spot isnt really a bad play, although some of his later logic that pp is rigged didnt really make sense, it did make sense that he could extract more value with his JJ by limping.