Was I Really Dumb, Way Out Of Line, Or Did I Completley Lose My Mind?

[dead money 1]

This was a 1/2 NL hand at the new Parx poker room in Bensalem, Pa. Great room by the way for everybody in the tri state area. Background: I was at the table for about 1/2 hour. Im in the 7 seat. Villain is in the 4 seat. Guy to my right tells me when I first sit down to watch out for him. He plays every hand and calls a lot. He just recently lost an all in with KJ against KK on a J high flop calling all the way down. Despite that he has built his stack back up to about $300 in a short time. Im Button on this hand with 62 of spades and about $175. Obviously I dont play this hand 98% of the time, but I like to play junk hands sporadically to change things up. Im sure a lot of you probably dont approve of this and I would be inclined to agree, but lets just play the hand anyway since thats what I did. Villain makes it $7 to go. All call in between us. I call and big blind raises to $21. I was done with the hand until everyone called and in my head at the time I thought it was a good price to try and flop a very unlikely monster for my range. I call.Flop: Q32 Two HeartsBB makes it $10. Villain and 1 other player call. There is now $136 and it costs me $10 to call so I was pretty happy to try and hit another 2. I call.Turn: A (now 2 hearts and 2 clubs on board)Checks around to me. I happily check.River: ABB checks(Clearly she didnt hit and is giving up). Villain very quickly bets $65. Other player folds and its on me. Now Im pretty much done with the hand but something didnt really add up for me. So I took my time and thought out his bet. He routinely would raise to $7 pre and show down very marginal hands. He flatted the flop. I really didnt see him having top pair as he would like to isolate with flopped pairs to get heads up with original bettor. When he checked the turn I felt he def didnt hit the A. He would have most certainly bet with the A. The most interesting play for him was the river. It didnt make sense. If he had the A or Q he would not have bet so much. He knows nobody has much at this point so he would make a teaser bet and hope someone calls with a pocket pair. He also isnt betting a hand like a small or medium pocket pair as its a marginal hand and he would be happy to win the decent pot without risking more money knowing he only gets called by a hand that beats him. So the only hands I saw him making that bet with was with a missed draw or total bluff. Its a big bet and would scare everybody away if we all held marginal hands. This was my thinking at the time however wrong it may have been. Also, his body language was that of somebody who appeared genuinely uncomfortable. I could see that his legs were going a mile a minute and he was talking fast around the table trying to seem like he could care less about the hand going on. All this was telling me that my read on him was correct. All told I spent about 5 minutes thinking this over. The clock was called and I eventually threw in my call with about 10 seconds left. BB folded as she had indicated she would all along(poor etiquette on her part but it was to my advantage and I couldnt unhear what she had said). Villain said nice call and flipped up K4 of spades. Now Im not bragging in any way. I would love to go over this hand street by street and find out how off base my thinking was. I feel that I made a couple mistakes in this hand but was able to overcome them by continuing to adapt to the changes and kept thinking rationally throughout, however misguided it may have been. I really want some good advice about deep multi level thinking. I dont discuss many hands with other players so Im not sure if Im taking the correct course of thinking through a hand. Any help to break this down and show me where my thinking was correct and where I was completely foolish is welcomed. Please be harsh, but also informative. I thank all of you in advance.

[mtdesmoines 3]

You couldn't have played every street worse. Nice hand.

[dead money 1]

You couldn't have played every street worse. Nice hand.

Thanks

[SuperJon 175]

You actually took 5 minutes to call?Hope you got a verbal from the floor for that slowroll. Snap call imo.

[BaseJester 1]

I think preflop is a mistake. It's a garbage hand and you're not deep enough to really exploit position.I think the flop call is OK for the pot-odds like you state.On the turn, I think you have to consider trying to pick up the pot. You knew you were going up hill with a hand so you have to look for opportunities to win without a showdown. Good job with the physical read on the river. I don't, however, find that to be unusually large bet for a medium pair, which I think the villain shows up with a lot.

[fighter 4]

I really dislike preflop. Coming from me that should tell you something. After pre though I think you played it fine. Can't fold flop getting 1 million:1 , you could bet turn with the intention of checking river to get a cheap showdown and charge draws. A lot of live players won't value bet less then an Ace on the river so calling river can be profitable especially against a person with a wide range and high agression like the villain.

[pokerinc 0]

Huge amount of callers, I'm fine w/ pre flop since the initial raise was a villain who can't fold top pr. , 10 into 130 I'm calling too but not excited about it.The river call was gutsy. I probably fold there. Villians who call light, slow play too, so I'd give him credit for more than he had. Nice hand.

[fighter 4]

Huge amount of callers, I'm fine w/ pre flop since the initial raise was a villain who can't fold top pr. , 10 into 130 I'm calling too but not excited about it.The river call was gutsy. I probably fold there. Villians who call light, slow play too, so I'd give him credit for more than he had. Nice hand.

So you don't fold any hands pre ?

[Ninja Ace 1]

give me your schedule of when you're going down to Parx, what table you're sitting at, and when the seat to your left opens?but seriously, +1 to what MT said.You may have pinpointed his game flow and physical tells, but calling here is still really bad. You have to realize you lose to a ton of hands that are turned into bluffs. If you're going to move at this pot on the river, move at it, don't call.Also, I am shocked you didn't fire the turn given everything you've said.In all seriousness though, look at the preflop hand you chose and the line of call call call call calclalaclclalal calllllllllll. If this doesn't scream loose/passive fish to yourself, nothing will.

[dead money 1]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback. This is good. Its actually interesting seeing the different points of views on this. Pre: Clearly I was wrong here, and I dont deny it. Especially with BaseJester's point that I dont have a deep stack to do what I had intended. Flop: I guess its a pretty obvious call and thats what I thought at the time. Turn: This is where I think I made the worst mistake(ignoring playing the hand in the first place). I feel you guys are right here. Half of my reasoning to play the hand in the first place was to be able to take a pot away down the road without a showdown. I missed my best chance here. I def. should have fired a bet here. And yes Ninja Ace, looking back on the hand my play does scream loose/passive fish the whole way. This is def. a hole in my game I need to work on. Im just not good enough to try any of these fancy plays. Having said that, I was trying not to compound my initial bad play with more poor decisions. I dont think raising the flop would have been a good idea and I really hate the idea of raising the river. So I think those decisions, while passive, were better than the aggressive approach. Agree or disagree?How much would you guys suggest I bet on the turn? Would a bet of around $40 be good? River: Some of you say fold and some say calling wasnt that bad. I guess this is really a "in the moment" kind of decision. Does that make sense? All in all I really appreciate the posts guys. One more question. Do you guys feel I over think hands? I know this is just one sample, but Im curious to know if the better players go about dissecting a hand like this or am I going about it completely wrong. I would really like to know so I can adjust my approach to breaking hands down while playing. Its one of the aspects of the game where I would really like to focus and improve on. Thanks.

[dead money 1]

give me your schedule of when you're going down to Parx, what table you're sitting at, and when the seat to your left opens?

By the way, Ill be there tomorrow at around 9ish.

[Ninja Ace 1]

How much would you guys suggest I bet on the turn? Would a bet of around $40 be good?

Good God no. Any bet... value, bluff, whatever should almost always be AT LEAST half pot.

By the way, Ill be there tomorrow at around 9ish.

LOL I was just ribbing you. If I was going to play live I'd go to Chester since it's closer to me than Bensalem.

[dead money 1]

Good God no. Any bet... value, bluff, whatever should almost always be AT LEAST half pot.LOL I was just ribbing you. If I was going to play live I'd go to Chester since it's closer to me than Bensalem.

So $70, $80 would be more appropriate? And why go to Chester when Delaware Park is much nicer and only 15 minutes from there?

[Ninja Ace 1]

So $70, $80 would be more appropriate? And why go to Chester when Delaware Park is much nicer and only 15 minutes from there?

Got banned from DP for dipping at the table

[droberts 3]

Got banned from DP for dipping at the table

meh dont use tobacco.. its tuurrrrribbbbllleee

[mtdesmoines 3]

Got banned from DP for dipping at the table

LOL please tell me you didn't get immedi-banned for the first dip?

[Ninja Ace 1]

LOL please tell me you didn't get immedi-banned for the first dip?

Dealer did give me a warning that if the floor saw me I would be banned. I chose to dip anyway figuring that doing it discreetly without spitting it would not become an issue... then a drunk fish asked if I was dipping and if he could have some Copenhagen... when the floor came over his almost empty beer was filled with dip spit... I was $250 richer but the floor did notice the large bulge in my lip when fish said "I'm not the only one who dips in here who cares I'm not ****ing smoking at least." I was asked kindly to cash out and exit the building... and figured said fish stacking off with Q high because he wanted to "rep an UTG range" was payment enough.Also, I hate DP's straddle rule. I forget the name but they allow a straddle, the last position before blinds has the option, and it's only for twice the big blind. The last position that declares they want to straddle... last being the button... trumps any previous straddle despite only putting in 2BB. The blinds are completely indefensible since anyone, including every player to my right, knows I can't be first to act on every street and be able to play anything but premiums. It's basically a free steal attempt with a chance to defend for the button... but that kills the action that I like... the loose co/btn/sb/bb wars.

[Ninja Ace 1]

meh dont use tobacco.. its tuurrrrribbbbllleee

I've noticed recently. I've actually quit dipping and smoking menthols... working on the whole tobacco thing but at least I've kicked the products with fiberglass in them (dip uses fiberglass to make tiny cuts in your lip that the nicotine slips though... the menthol taste of a cigarette is produced by a little bit of fiber glass)On a related/unrelated note I've been able to sit longer periods of time without anger/tilt at retards who can't think past "i hasses two PURTY CARDS" and actually been able to exploit them. darwinsheadstash.com probably has an equal contribution though...

[rrumsey 0]

just do as you know you should in bad weak passive game, and snap fold this pre

[dead money 1]

just do as you know you should in bad weak passive game, and snap fold this pre

Yea, its overwhelming that that would be correct. I would appreciate more feedback on the rest of the hand. Thanks.

[rrumsey 0]

Yea, its overwhelming that that would be correct. I would appreciate more feedback on the rest of the hand. Thanks.

you have bottom 2 pair, on a paired board, multiway, fold to the river bet, you beat worse 2 or K high.