econ_tim 0 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: econ_tim is BB with A:club:, Q:diamond:. MP posts a blind of $2. UTG calls, MP (poster) checks, 2 folds, SB completes, econ_tim checks.reads are that UTG is a total calling station and SB is very loose preflop. Link to post Share on other sites
PoppinFresh 0 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I don't like it, you need to raise this for value/to possibly push poster out of the pot.I don't think I understand this one, why did you decide to check? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zach6668 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I raise for value. You don't HAVE to bet the flop OOP if you miss, and it's a connected/suited flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 anyone else want to hate my weak play?this hand follows advice in HEPFAP, which seems to contradict SSHE. i once read a thread where Mason Malmuth tries to reconcile the two. i'll throw up a link later if i get motivated. Link to post Share on other sites
PoppinFresh 0 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Guests suck. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 you aren't playing advanced players. Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 you aren't playing advanced players. Link to post Share on other sites
econ_tim 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 you aren't playing advanced players.OK. Guess you aren't interested in having a real poker discussion.Me raising preflop probably won't cause anyone to make an incorrect decision. Anything they limped with is worth a call getting 5 to 1 or more. This will also make it correct to call with any reasonable hand postflop.By checking preflop, I make it more likely that opponents will make a mistake postflop, thus winning me Ultimate Sklansky Points. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zach6668 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 you aren't playing advanced players.OK. Guess you aren't interested in having a real poker discussion.Me raising preflop probably won't cause anyone to make an incorrect decision. Anything they limped with is worth a call getting 5 to 1 or more. This will also make it correct to call with any reasonable hand postflop.By checking preflop, I make it more likely that opponents will make a mistake postflop, thus winning me Ultimate Sklansky Points.While this is true, you are losing value by not raising preflop, are we not? Don't we want to push our equity edge when we have it?- Zach Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 you aren't playing advanced players.OK. Guess you aren't interested in having a real poker discussion.Me raising preflop probably won't cause anyone to make an incorrect decision. Anything they limped with is worth a call getting 5 to 1 or more. This will also make it correct to call with any reasonable hand postflop.By checking preflop, I make it more likely that opponents will make a mistake postflop, thus winning me Ultimate Sklansky Points.You're opponents may or may not make a mistake postflop. However, you're definitely making a mistake preflop by not putting more money in the pot when you're almost certainly favored. Even if they all make mistakes and call when they're behind on the flop, you'll only bringing the pot to the size that you could have gotten it to preflop if you'd just raised. I see no advantage to checking in a four-way pot here. Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaOmega 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 You get 3 extra SB immediately pre-flop by raising with what is likely the best hand.I don't think you can make that up on a regular basis enough for checking to be more profitable than betting pre-flop.Edited for Clarity. Link to post Share on other sites
econ_tim 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 You get 3 extra SB immediately pre-flop.No I don't. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zach6668 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 You get 3 extra SB immediately pre-flop.No I don't.No? Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaOmega 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 You get 3 extra SB immediately pre-flop.No I don't.Are you suggesting that they will limp/fold?Or are we disagreeing about something silly? Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 you aren't playing advanced players.OK. Guess you aren't interested in having a real poker discussion.put the pipe down. Link to post Share on other sites
kouta43 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 how can you not raise here in a 6max game. From your posts you seem better, but this is nothing short of horrible.How do you make money playing limit holdem- finding fishies.Why do you like fishies- because they play crap that is less likely to win then the hands you play.How do you make money from this? Raise your premium holdings, and punish them, and then thank them for making it so easy.This isnt even remotely close to a borderline decision. With 3 other players in, im raising worse hands than AQ out of the BB. Link to post Share on other sites
econ_tim 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 You get 3 extra SB immediately pre-flop.No I don't.Are you suggesting that they will limp/fold?Or are we disagreeing about something silly?the pot will probably grow by 3SB, but i don't get to add 3SB to my stack just because i make this raise Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 you aren't playing advanced players.OK. Guess you aren't interested in having a real poker discussion.Me raising preflop probably won't cause anyone to make an incorrect decision. Anything they limped with is worth a call getting 5 to 1 or more. This will also make it correct to call with any reasonable hand postflop.By checking preflop, I make it more likely that opponents will make a mistake postflop, thus winning me Ultimate Sklansky Points.I don't think it's that interesting a discussion. AK is an easy raise. AT is an easy check. AJ is somewhat borderline, probably a check. AQ is somewhat borderline, probably a raise.The fact is that your opponents are limping in with garbage (especially the sb and poster). If you flop a pair, you will probalby win. The hand is not that difficult to play agianst these seemingly passive players. Exploit your edge now, cuz it's not really costing you anything postflop. Link to post Share on other sites
kouta43 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 you aren't playing advanced players.OK. Guess you aren't interested in having a real poker discussion.Me raising preflop probably won't cause anyone to make an incorrect decision. Anything they limped with is worth a call getting 5 to 1 or more. This will also make it correct to call with any reasonable hand postflop.By checking preflop, I make it more likely that opponents will make a mistake postflop, thus winning me Ultimate Sklansky Points. I don't think it's that interesting a discussion. AK is an easy raise. AT is an easy check. AJ is somewhat borderline, probably a check. AQ is somewhat borderline, probably a raise.The fact is that your opponents are limping in with garbage (especially the sb and poster). If you flop a pair, you will probalby win. The hand is not that difficult to play agianst these seemingly passive players. Exploit your edge now, cuz it's not really costing you anything postflop.Why speak with authority when you are wrong? Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaOmega 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 You get 3 extra SB immediately pre-flop.No I don't.Are you suggesting that they will limp/fold?Or are we disagreeing about something silly?the pot will probably grow by 3SB, but i don't get to add 3SB to my stack just because i make this raiseSo, the latter?My point was that we add 3 SB to the pot, not necessarily to us, but mostly to us because our hand figures to be the best going in pre-flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 kouta43,how low do you go, A8 off?and don't be a jerk, Screech has not been a dick to you. Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Why speak with authority when you are wrong?Ahahahahahahahah.The situation is no different than when you have 3 loose limpers to you in the BB in a full game. Link to post Share on other sites
kouta43 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 kouta43,how low do you go, A8 off?and don't be a jerk, Screech has not been a dick to you.I will always raise with AJ off here, and sometimes with A 10- i dont go any lower than A10 OOP.My point was AQ isnt even close to being borderline- it is a significantly better holding than 3 limpers 6 handed- 3/5=60% of the field is limping- highly likely with rubbish.Thats why 6max games are so good,people think playing crap is a good idea. Link to post Share on other sites
kouta43 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Why speak with authority when you are wrong?Ahahahahahahahah.The situation is no different than when you have 3 loose limpers to you in the BB in a full game.3 very very loose limpers maybe.But in a full game 3 limpers =3/9 = 33% of the fieldhere= 3/5 =60% of the field- implies worse holdings.For the last time here just raise with AQ if you like money.AJ also.I will accept reservation on A10 o/s, but im still raising a fair % of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
econ_tim 0 Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 by pokerstove simulation, AQ has 36.8% equity against 3 random handsthe villains would have raised very strong hands, but they also would fold very weak hands, so i think random hands are a decent approximation.so when i raise, i increase my equity by (0.368)*4SB - 1SB = 0.47SB or about half a small bet.i also simulate KJo as having 33.7% equity against 3 random hands. i don't usually raise with KJo here, although i do typically raise AQo. since most arguments in this thread are implicity based on equity, they suggest i should also raise KJo here. do you? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now