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barry greenstein, counteract strategy


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Has anyone else came across this section in barry's new book, Ace on the River? pg 204about how opponents pressure you into making mistakes and how your suppossed to counteract them, specifically in loose aggressive gamesSince I have been having trouble beating these loose aggressive games I thought this would be important to discuss with anyone else having this problem and maybe get some insight on how some of the better players at FCP handle this situationone of his examples suggest that when your opponents are playing extremely loose, that you should adjust your play by loosening your standards and reraising frequently instead of waiting for a good hand. I guess this would probably help you from getting run over all the time...another one suggests that when your opponents are value-betting excessively that you should raise when you can beat a value-bet, and raise-bluff more often on the riveranyone care to explain?aloha

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it pretty much explains itself
yeah it does,but, im trying to figure out how and why these strategies would help you in these games? ex. raise-bluff more on the river... how would that help you
People make value bets because they have a medium strong hand that they think is good. if you give them reason to believe otherwise it's right for them to fold.
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Not that I'm anybody to disagree with B.G. but I just tighten up and when I do play a hand and don't hit it I make a huge bluff on the river.  Works good for me, especially in head-up games.
Tightening up in Loose aggressive games is one of Caro's top ten Hold 'em errors. I'm not doubting your results, just saying is allessay
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it pretty much explains itself
yeah it does,but, im trying to figure out how and why these strategies would help you in these games? ex. raise-bluff more on the river... how would that help you
People make value bets because they have a medium strong hand that they think is good. if you give them reason to believe otherwise it's right for them to fold.
yeah, but in order for that to work, you need these things to be true A) an opponent who will lay down a medium stregth hand to a raise. Usually, in a loose aggressive game, it's incorrect to lay down a hand on the river, 'cause of the pot size. That's why you also need B) the image of a tight Rock who only raises with the nuts, not a bluffer. If you don't have both these things, you're waisint your money.
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Not that I'm anybody to disagree with B.G. but I just tighten up and when I do play a hand and don't hit it I make a huge bluff on the river.  Works good for me, especially in head-up games.
Tightening up in Loose aggressive games is one of Caro's top ten Hold 'em errors. I'm not doubting your results, just saying is allessay
You need to loosen up what you are aggressive with, but often tighten up what yo ucall with. If you are having to call two bets on turns cold for your draws, then you need to make sure the pot is big enough to warrent that call. Often, because the game is loose, it is. But often it's not.
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Well there is obviously a huge difference if the game is limit or NL. If you are playing in a limit game where it is 5 or 6 way action everytime, you can't sit around and wait for a big hand. You must loosen up some, therefore you must make sure you have a big enough bankroll to handle the swings. If the game is NL and the play is very loose, it is good to have a loose image. That doesn't mean your play isn't solid. You must get to know the players. If someone is very aggressive, they will often bluff all there chips away to you when you make a big hand. If they are a calling station, just make a big hand and overbet it. Just figure out the playing style of your opponent and you will know whether you can make a play at them.

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Has anyone else came across this section in barry's new book, Ace on the River?   pg 204about how opponents pressure you into making mistakes and how your suppossed to counteract them, specifically in loose aggressive gamesSince I have been having trouble beating these loose aggressive games I thought this would be important to discuss with  anyone else having this problem and maybe get some insight on how some of the better players at FCP handle this situationone of his examples suggest that when your opponents are playing extremely loose, that you should adjust your play by loosening your standards and reraising frequently instead of waiting for a good hand.  I guess this would probably help you from getting run over all the time...another one suggests that  when your opponents are value-betting excessively that you should raise when you can beat a value-bet, and raise-bluff more often on the riveranyone care to explain?aloha
I read most of BGs book and I cant specifically remember this part, but it sounds like he is referring to Limit instead of NL. Its important to recognize the difference between loose and aggressive. The difference between a loose-passive game and a loose aggressive game definitely makes a difference between what you can play profitably. In Lag games, you cannot play alot of medium sooted connectors early or even middle because of the excessive preflop action, but raising hands increase in value because other players are calling raises, limp reraising and open-raising w/ trash. So in an LAG game I will 3 bet light (ex.AJ or KQs) for value and to force those behind me to either dump better hands or call with worse hands. Also when I notice specific players who limp reraise light I will 4 bet with any hand I open raised with. Always take the initiative w/ loose aggressives. In a loose passive game you can limp w/ all kinds of hands because the threat of a raise is not is high and you will have 6-9way action going to the flop. I have been known to play any suited on the button as well as any pp from any position. Sklansky will say to throw away all but the best hands in a wild lag game, but I think alot of players realizethat even small edges should be pushed in these games just for the sake of getting action when you do have a monster. You are encouraging a gambling atmosphere but you are the one who actually has the edge w/ AJ off and KJs, etc. Push it.P.S. As far as the raise when you can beat a value bet question: A common tactic in mid and high limit HE is to value bet river and fold to a raise from a predictable player. Alot of good books have trained players not to fold for 1 bb in a medium to large pot. As a result many good players have adjusted and started value betting show downable hands that they used to check, because they could get a weaker hand to pay off and fold when a player got there. I think BG is writing to counteract this strategy. If a good player is betting the river when you know he has a weak made hand but is trying to get a call from a weaker hand it might be correct to raise, because they are planning on folding to a raise. I do not suggest using this tactic in SSHE, they will always call.
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Read this for a more elaborate explanation of what Barry is talking about. The guy who wrote it uses Hellmuthian animal models, but it roughly explains why in big bet poker shifting to a LAG style might be effective when faced with a skilled player in extreme maniac mode.http://music.ucsd.edu/~sdubnov/FS08Working...BurnsPoker2.pdfhope this helps...

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