i'm rockin the suburbs, just like jon bon jovi did..

[Smasharoo 0]

20/40 LHE home game. 6 handed.I'm under the gun with KhKs.I raise, folded to BB who three-bets, I cap.Flop is TcJcQc. He bets out, I....

[Blink20 0]

Just move all in preflop ;-)Seriously though, that flop makes you feel like you're getting rocked in the suburbs, ouch.I couldn't even comment if this were a 1/2cent limit hand, tough flop.Sorry for adding nothing to your thread, i just had to jump in, interested to see some real analysis :-)

[custom36 4]

raiseDo we have any reads?

[Smasharoo 0]

raiseDo we have any reads?Solid preflop, pretty horrible postflop. He's showing down whatever it is here.I'm not overly fond of raising this flop. What's he three-betting that we're ahead of here? 99 MAYBE.

[mark33f 0]

What about calling here?

[Blink20 0]

What's he three-betting that we're ahead of here? 99 MAYBE.

AQ, AJ, esp if he has ace of clubs with it.But i guess if he has one of those hands, he has a lot of outs against your kings, and already might be way ahead.Bad input coming...Maybe you just call him down, that way you don't scare away a potential bluff and you minimize paying off any other hands.

[lboarts 0]

call

[Smasharoo 0]

AQ, AJ, esp if he has ace of clubs with it. Of these, he'd only three-bet AQs pre-flop, knowing it's heads up against my UTG raise.He might three-bet any pp 8's and up, and AK.

[Blink20 0]

So there's basically only like 3 hands you are ahead of right now, and not ahead of one of them, AQ, by much, esp if he has Aclubs.All the other hands you are almost way behind, except for your straight outs I guess.If you almost know how far behind you are, I guess it all comes down to the math, which I don't know how to do on this hand.Are you saying that you should almost just fold on the flop bet?

[wrto4556 0]

id call down unless something horrible hit

[akishore 0]

is calling down terrible? regardless of whether no more clubs come or another club comes.raising here is pretty bad, i think. one thought that ran through my mind is calling and raising a non-club non-broadway turn, but THEN what do we do if we get three-bet? he might have flopped a straight with AK, or might be freerolling you with KcKx or might be way ahead with A-A club or no club, or might have a set of queens through tens, or may even have TPTK with the Ac.if he has something like 9-9 or 8-8, calling down is cool because he might slow down to a raise. if he has A-Q no club, calling down is also good. i also don't like folding even if a club comes because it's very possible he doesn't have a club either and is just betting since you haven't showed any strength.calling down seems weak, but is it really?aseem

[akishore 0]

id call down unless something horrible hit

you beat me to it. but are you really folding the turn if a 2c comes on the turn? he might be just as scared of the club as you are, but is simply betting with the intention of folding to a raise. but raising there sucks too.aseem

[Blink20 0]

id call down unless something horrible hit

I shouldn't be in this thread, but I wanted to learn something...Then I threw a dart blindfolded and maybe hit the bullseye, since one of the limit experts on the forum stated same thing as me.Ah, even the blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes, as the old men at my live poker game say.

[Smasharoo 0]

So there's basically only like 3 hands you are ahead of right now, and not ahead of one of them, AQ, by much, esp if he has Aclubs. That seems fairly unlikely :)Yes, I think it's between calling and folding and it's fairly close. The problem I have with calling, though, is that I'm not sure I can call if another club hits.I did fold it, but I'm not sure if it was the best play.I'd like someone to convince me calling is ok. I think raising is completely out of the question, but I'm oepn to reasonig why it's ok, too.

[Blink20 0]

Your guys' limit holdem is a hard game ;-) , maybe when these no limit games become unprofitable you'll have to teach me sometime..The expected edge is just too small, its very close both ways on this one.Im sure you guys can agree with me on this, this situation in no limit, would be much easier to make a decision.

[wrto4556 0]

folding isnt horrible. It might even be better given his range of 3-betting hands OOP.yes, aseem, id fold to the 2 .smash, you suck at catching good flops. :-)

[Smasharoo 0]

smash, you suck at catching good flopsNah, people just cry when I post about flopping quads.

[Blink20 0]

smash, you suck at catching good flopsNah, people just cry when I post about flopping quads.

I cheered when you accidently capped preflop 52o and caught quads, that rocked :-)

[lboarts 0]

I already said call. I'll outline why in a sec.Raise: The only reason I'd raise here is to see where I stand. If he reraises the flop, I laydown right here. If he just calls, then leads the turn, I fold here. Raising him on the flop gives you the outside chance that he folds to your raise, giving you the pot right there. He may have been betting the flop hoping the clubs scared you out, while not holding any himself. I often bet scary flops without catching any of it looking for a laydown.Fold: Tight sound play, no real reason why this would be a bad play, except for the fact that you have an overpair and may very well still be ahead.Call: Your overpair may still be best, and calling may slow him down, while not forcing you to invest too much in a pot you could easily lose.After reading my notes, I think I convinced myself to raise the flop, lol. I'd probably still just call, though.

[monoatomic 0]

I'll throw out a raise there.You said your read was he was poor postflop. If he three bets you there you can fold easily.Just calling..eh..What do you hope to accomplish by just calling? You get to see the turn card and if it's not a club and you raise in that spot and he three bets you then what now. If you don't raise the turn on a non-clubbed broadway, and just call and the river comes a K or another club what now?I think raising the flop stunts the hand right there. He three bets you know you are beat, he flat calls you can probably narrow it down that he has a set or club/straight draw. If he is intent on calling it down here, I think the flop raise and him calling gets you atleast the turn for free.

[Smasharoo 0]

I think raising the flop stunts the hand right there. He three bets you know you are beat, he flat calls you can probably narrow it down that he has a set or club/straight draw. If he is intent on calling it down here, I think the flop raise and him calling gets you atleast the turn for free.Maybe.Can I really check behind if he flat calls though?Do I even WANT to show this down for another 2 bets? The pot's only 4bb here.

[wrto4556 0]

raising really sucks, guys.He can 3-bet A Qx for equity and we would have to fold.

[mkeller3086 0]

f it, who really caresi'm just glad smash used a ben folds linei'd call tho

[monoatomic 0]

I'd go with either a raise or a fold. Flat calling seems totally worthless. You don't find anything out about his hand and what do you do on the turn, flat call again? Raise a non-club broadway, and then fold to a re-raise? I'd take raise, calling a 3 bet and then folding the turn more then just flat calling.

[Smasharoo 0]

I'd take raise, calling a 3 bet and then folding the turn more then just flat calling.Why am I putting in three more bets behind?