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For the rational mind...

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#1 wrto4556


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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:51 PM

Daniel posted a thread about pride in the general forum recently and I absolutely hated it. No offense to daniel, just completly different point of views. It said something along the lines of "beware of pride"; "pride is the root of all sin.""Pride is faith in yourself, instead of faith in God.""Pride will cause you to go your own way instead of God's way." "Pride makes you think you do not need God's advice or help.""All disobedience has pride as its root. All rebellion has pride behind it. All mistreatment of other people is caused by pride: putting yourself and your feelings above the other person and their feelings."Pride is not the root of all sin. Pride will cause you to go your own way...and there is no fault in that. I am not here to argue against daniel, however. I have just noticed alot of threads about things of this nature (does god care?) and I would like to put in my two cents. I am an objectivist. And to those of you who are not only open minded to new ideas, but critically analyze these ideas, I have a few things i'de like to say."Pride is the recognition of the fact that you are your own highest value and, like all of manís values, it has to be earned." -Ayn RandIs that so wrong? Pride is the result of only one thing: achievement. And it can be earned by only one type of entity: an individual human being. An individual is entitled to be proud, for example, of graduating with honors as a result of hard study--or of exercising the conscientious effort that gains him a promotion at work--or of engaging in the endless hours of practice that enable him to lead his athletic team to a championship. It is the person of accomplishment who experiences genuine pride.It is impossible to be truely happy without pride.This goes out to daniel:"Show me your achievement, and the knowledge will give me courage for mine." Don't be ashamed of your achievments, Daniel, it's discouraging."Productive work is the central purpose of a rational man's life, the central value that integrates and determines the hierarchy of all his other values. Reason is the source, the precondition of his productive work Ė pride is the result."And here's a few for the religous folks:"Religion is a primitive form of philosophy, [the] attempt to offer a comprehensive view of reality."Sure, Jesus Christ probably existed, but he was not the son of god. He may have even been born from a virgin woman...quantum physics explains that this may be possible, that walking through walls is at random chance. But a divine creator did not plant the seed.I went on to say that I am a very selfish person, and am truely proud of that. I stated that there is virtue in selfishness, and good in man's ego. My thread forced daniel to keep it from being a "sticky". Sorry, danny...just thinking "out-loud".I believe too strongly in the essence of man. "The world you desired can be won, it exists, it is real, it is possible, it's yours. But to win it requires total dedication and a total break with the world of your past, with the doctrine that man is sacrificial animal who exists for the pleasure of others. Fight for the value of your person. Fight for the virtue of your pride. Fight for the essence, which is man, for his sovereign rational mind. Fight with the radiant certainty and the absolute rectitude of knowing that yours is the morality of life and yours is the battle for any achievement, any value, any grandeur, any goodness, any joy that has ever existed on this earth." -Ayn RandI quote alot of Ayn Rand, not because I can't think for myself, but because it can not be said any better. Read Atlas Shrugged and critically analyze all the philosphy in the book, and find a word untrue. I am a big fan of all her writing and have bought and read all essays and novels. Forgive me, but alot that is going around the forum has really gotten under my skin...I just can't understand why anyone would think this way. Be rationale, people.
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#2 Metaphysician


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Posted 23 December 2004 - 01:18 AM

The type of pride considered, biblical pride, I would assumed, is a wrong estimate of oneself, or arrogance. Pride of this kind often hinders one from making real progress in anything. If you're constantly overestimating yourself, you leave yourself no room to improve. I think on Ayn's own reasoning you shouldn't be this way. This is the sort of pride that is had without earning it. In fact, her view of pride seems to agree very well with the general biblical view.I don't think Ayn's a very good philosopher. Which is no surprise, she rejected nearly all of philosophy. She'd probably like that I don't think that. It reminds me of a quote I read somewhere... it went something like:


Objectivism utterly rejects nearly all of modern philosophy...Which is a state of affairs that can only be described as mutual.
Those are my views on pride and Ayn Rand. I will leave them as they are. I have no intention of getting into another lengthy argument concerning religion on this forum. It sucks up too much of the time I could be spending on higher level learning. That is why I stopped posting on infidels.org a long time ago. :/ But now you know where I stand(if it was of any interest).

#3 theresa113


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Posted 23 December 2004 - 06:33 AM

WOW... now I know of the subjects I should bring up at a poker table to get all of my opponents on Tilt! :D OK, I know, my little joke was bad, but I can say I am truely amazed how passionate everyone is on this site about religion, philosophy, politics, etc. I should have seen this coming. I posted a cute little thread on what people would want from Santa and I got things like "world peace" and " I don't focus on material things anymore, I am beyond that. " Yeah, those little comments ticked me off because I was just thinking of something a little cute to write and the purpose of the post was just to get to know my fellow forum buddies a bit. I use to be passionate about so many things but after awhile, I developed my own personal spirituality and points of view and I moved on. Meaning, I could care less what someone else thinks and I could care even less if they knew what I think and feel. About 10 years ago I started to ask myself "if I was old and lying on my death bed, would I be concerned about (fill in the blank)?" and if the answer was no, then I let it go. It is really amazing how many no's I got. The only yeses have been about my relationships with my family and close friends. I realized that people, not ideas, were important to me. So, for me, John Lennon was right, "All You Need Is Love." Yeah, I know its corny but for me, it is my truth. wrto... I wasn't crazy about the Pride thread but I think most biblical issues have to do with interpetations. Read different bibles and you will see different words for each quote. Bible quotes aren't valid for me but they do seem to help and guide a lot of people in this world. I read it, took a deep breath, and then I let it go. Metaphysician... I read your tit for tat with ivan and wow, the two of you are very passionate men. I found it interesting and amusing. I also thought it was weird that the two of you spent so much energy conveying your thoughts on a poker site. Both of you are well read and you were both elloquent in your debates. I wonder how well the two of you play poker. Do you let all of these rumblings erupt at the table or do you use your intelligence to out wit your fellow players? I am sure it is interesting.Anyway, I know I didn't really say much, but I think my point is just to let things go. Everyone develops at their own pace and finds their own truths. Respect that, move on and enjoy your own life and your own journey. Oh... and play lots of poker! :-)
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#4 tekn0wledg


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Posted 23 December 2004 - 06:46 AM

Good post wrto.I agree that things have gotten a little 'different' on the board the last week or two, that's why I haven't been posting as frequently.I do enjoy political, philosophical and religious conversations though, mainly because I think as humans every view point is different and I always enjoy hearing other people's outlook on various aspects of life.My favorite topic is evolution vs. religion. I believe in the evolutionary theory, however I did attend Catholic shool as a child. Maybe the force fed knowledge of the bible caused me to lean towards scientific methods more, but I really just feel my personality and the way I think lends to scientific methods instead of faith in general.Other topics are does God exist? I definitely think something has to exist to have created matter, which formed the universe, but I don't know what that thing is.... God? Perhaps, but definitely speaking nobody knows.I think the board is ok to discuss these topics, really it's just people being people. I don't know that I'll get involved in alot of these topics because as is clearly evident there are alot of children on here who are quick to flame and bash people's opinions.

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